reading primers but with cci no34

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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hey what you guys thinking in regards to reading the primer on these CCi 34s ? ive read they are a magnum mix primer with a different distance of the anvel reading needing a harder hit to go off.
ive also read the material isnt any different, just the anvels further back.


Im loading them in a 3006 , with a slightly fast but adequate powder... 'varget'. ive had a similiar experience here with using varget in a 270, certainly slower loads with alot less powder, typically 45gr, compared to a 55 for a slower powder.

with a advised range of 44-47gr , i loaded 45gr and they shot sweet, all went off, no hang fires etc. (ive had problem in past as previous owner of gun hadnt cleaned firing pin spring area, gummed up aka soft hits)

what i have noticed is a slight fillin out of the primer, certainly not flat but starting to square up the edges/ nice smooth surface no rounding...

bolt liift and extraction seemed all swell , but i contemplated trying to push a 1 or 2 more GR of powder in, which would bring me to max pressure as per manuals. 50k cup etc.
i expect varget to get to high pressure before high speed an the 1 or 2 grain can add alot of pressure,
my question evolves off reading those primers.... would they read any different to other primers? like would a magnum primer read the same sort of pressure as the same load with a LR primer?

Say the LR primer load was "warm" an right on the edge of the accurate-- if you replaced primer with a "magnum", is the load getting Hotter, or Colder?, per se?
or the pressure thing isnt so black an white but at the end of the day the primer, but combined with bolt lift and 'accuracy', will be a better indicator of a sweet spot / hot load.?


ive got run 2208 / varget an these 180s for now, until woodleigh is back. from my understanding, 2500 with the possibly of 2550 give or take is about all im going to get with 20 inch , the load was very managable for me off a solid rest and i think for sub 250m with the long poke being 300 fully rested , that combination should work suitably for my needs..

thanks
 
Is an article by writer John Barnsess - he took his rifles and loads to Western Powders lab in Myles City, Montana and had his loads pressure tested. The point of his article was that some of his loads - developed with "home signs" like primer condition, case head expansion and bolt lift - tested to be fine - but some were much higher than expected - so point of his article was that signs on brass or primers might work as pressure indicators, but he has examples where they did not work well.

One of his loads - a 7mm Rem Mag (?) that he had used for at least 15 years - but was significantly above the SAAMI pressure maximum.

But, he could not find an instance where pressure did not match to velocity - no way to get velocity without corresponding pressure - so he writes that the chronograph is a reasonable substitute for pressure testing for a "home guy". Simply can not get more velocity using same bullets and same powder as the manual did - only way to get more velocity than manual did, is by going to higher pressure than they did (or using longer barrel). He went so far as to suggest to add more powder, if you do not get the manual's velocity at their maximum loading - accounting for barrel length differences - he also pointed out that the reverse was true - you might be at reloading manual velocity, and still be a few grains powder below what they needed in their barrel.

Similar was in a post on CGN or perhaps a PM - by Ganderite - do up a pressure test series and go 0.5 or 1.0 grains past what the manual lists as maximum. You want to find where the limit is for your stuff - your chamber, your barrel, your lot of powder - so your result might be above or might be less than what the manual says - they did not use your stuff for their testing. In my mind, is my chronograph that tells me the limit - if book is at 2,900 fps - then, when I am there - accounting for barrel length difference - then I am at their maximum pressure - whatever amount of grains of powder or primer that took to do.
 
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CCI 34 as to hardness, I use them in a Winchester 94 with REDUCED hammer spring and they go BANG. Not as deep a dent as others but no failures.
pressure- no comment
 
Still to do with pressure and velocity, Barsness had another article where he and Texas gunsmith Charlie Sisk worked with a barrel - I think they used 300 H&H and a 300 Win Short Mag - case capacity was nearly identical with bullets seated, but case shapes very different - I do not recall specifics - they used one barrel - chamber for the short one - about 6 or 8 loads and were measuring velocity - then reamed that same barrel to the longer case - or maybe was other way around to maintain the same throat - another series of same amount of powder and the same loads. They concluded from that exercise that the case shape had nothing to do with velocity or pressure - was mostly a "sales story". He completely discounts case shape as having anything to do with velocity or pressure.
 
Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
Well you’re not much fun are you?
Bet you’ve still got both your eyes and a full set of digits too.
Click to expand...

Guys that load by "reading" their brass and primers probably cast chicken bones to decide which rifle to buy next... Outside of a proper test with proper equipment it's just a guess based on factors that may or may not be indicating excessive pressure. A chronograph and reloading programs are much better tools.
 
VICIOUS said:
CCI 34 as to hardness, I use them in a Winchester 94 with REDUCED hammer spring and they go BANG. Not as deep a dent as others but no failures.
pressure- no comment
Click to expand...

thats interesting, not as deep... i read the anval was further in for use in SLRs so no bump fire or slam fire etc.!



RE the primer deal, im hanging 10 for now until i am at the last resort of using that loaded rounds with cci, an il shoot one or two an see how it goes- see what pans out il report back in due time
 
The primer is the same as the 250, just with more space between the hammer and anvil when seated, as I already said in your last thread. That is straight from a tech at CCI.
 
So the Same load with the different primer, LR V MAG ? isss, the mag was alot higher on the target an the primer was less flat / not as flat / rounder edged - than the LR load.

so i read that as a different Velocity? an not worth chasing up.

im going to pull the Woodleighs an load the 180s in there.
 
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