First Pistol (Update)

Oh okay; dangit I wish I could figure out which'd work better without trying them! Apparently the next IPSC match around here is only in March, so that'll be tricky to do.
Hmm...that's interesting...what about the 226? What sized hands does that seem to like?

And yes please post pictures!

-Rohann
 
Soli said:
Post some more pics for us! :D

You might just get me to buy one early... ;)
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I just bought it 2 days ago. I still have to wait for the CFC to authorize the transfer :jerkit:

Let me try and find P2000 pictures.

Found em. They're the pictures Wolverine Supplies posted on here.

P2000V1 003.jpg

P2000V1 004.jpg

P2000V1 005.jpg
 
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Yeah I'm really not a fan of the look of the thing; the adjustable grips are pretty cool though! How much did that cost you? Oh and of course, the crucial ATT authorization :rolleyes:.
Ah man if only I could actually go out and shoot some.

-Rohann
 
The P2000 has a very short grip (from the trigger guard to the base of the magazine) - a good case of try before you buy -however, there are pistols that you may not warm up to right away, and may take some getting used to. Glocks are a good example of this.
Based on your requirements, I believe you could pick up an M&P and not look back.
Everything out there in your price point will be a service type pistol and will have virtually same same accuracy.
 
So I got around to shooting my "new" CZ-85. I previously posted the test target above when Rohann asked about accuracy. The target below was the factory test target. The lower photo is the target I shot. Ten shots holding the gun with two hands, slow fire, sitting. 20 yards.

Now please take into consideration that I have not shot all that much this year. My eyes are not in the best of shape and I am not as steady as I would like to be. Age getting to me?:(

CZ85target.jpg

CZ-85.jpg


Rohann, I don't know which way you are going to go (seem like you don't either) but I would recommend stronger consideration to a gun that has a conventional single action trigger. If the gun has a double action / single action trigger that still would be ok as long as the first shot can be single action. (a gun that can be "cocked and locked") Stay away from guns that have a decocker. The decocker drops the hammer and gives you a double action first shot, then single action after that.

Guns with a first shot double action has their place as a carry gun but are not the most desirable gun to learn trigger control with. Also stay away from any gun with a long stroke in the trigger. This includes the Glock and Springfield XD-40 guns. I don't know about the newer S&W MP.

Again, these are not bad guns but they are not the easiest guns to learn good trigger control. My opinion. :)
 
Oh okay, thanks for the recommendation (not a bad grouping either! Though I can't reeeally comment as I don't know what groupings are supposed to look like and I doubt I could shoot close to that at this point). Yeah the first S&W I shot had a double/single action trigger, and I always made sure the hammer was back otherwise the difference in trigger pull would throw off my consistency. So are double/singles okay as long as the hammer is back (i.e. SIG and HK)?
I was actually thinking about that regarding Glocks; are they double-action only? Is that part of the reason why the triggers feel so "mushy" (after having mainly done rifleshooting with my tuned 700 trigger that Glock trigger drives me insane)?

Thanks a lot for all the help, I really appreciate it. Is there anything else you can inform me about in the meantime?

beltfed: Oh yeah? I'm not really a fan of the way the M&P looks (and wasn't the biggest fan of the S&W service pistols I shot), but again, if I try it out and it works well, then by all means. So you think it'll shoot as well as a SIG or HK? From what I've heard these two are some of the most accurate stock service 9mm's in the pricerange.

-Rohann
 
I am sure that the first pistol is very hard to pick because of so many choice out there. Many will go for high end(or you can say higher price) gun to avoid function, cool factor, or handleing issue but then found out the gun not suitable for them, commonly happened on the first gun. But I guess most of us already sold our first handgun and found something better. Personal taste of gun will also change overtime because you will find( I like his gun better than mine). Most modern gun can shoot better than the shooter. Sig or HK is not something really special, they are just good gun. If you are looking for a better trigger, Glock may not be your good choice. Looks like you really need to find a chance to try them out.

Trigun
 
Well I'm not reeeally looking for something all that special (if I was I'd be going with a USP tactical or a MK23), just something accurate, reliable and functional (admittedly with a good look-cool factor). I most definately do! That alone will probably be the deciding factor in what I end up with. Problem is that my location is seemingly void of people with said firearms. Any pre-shooting tips are very much appreciated though.

-Rohann
 
A friend of mine just got a Springfield XD-40 and a CZ-40P.
9-11-2006-4_57_47-PM_springxd.jpg


CZ40L.jpg


So I shot them last week. I didn't like the trigger on the XD-40. It has the same kind of trigger like on the Glock. The center lever in the trigger you have to push to enable the trigger. I hated it. Other than that lever/shaft (or what ever it's called) I think the actual trigger was better than a Glock I shot last summer, but its been a while so I'm not sure. When I first picked up the XD-40 I didn't like it much but it felt better when you actually shoot it.

The CZ40L has a decoker and no safety. So the first shot will be double action unless you #### the trigger first after drawing from a holster. Other than the double action first shot I kind of liked the feel of the gun.

Shooting accuracy for both guns was not great. After shooting them, and getting the same results I did, my friend shot his Colt 45 National Match. Not a Gold Cup National Match but the earlier gun the National Match. Fabulous gun. Well he put the shots into a tight group on the paper (20 yards). The spread with the other two guns covered at least four times the area.
 
Yeah I'm really not a fan of those "safe action" triggers.

No button safety? Hmm...
Regarding my desired finalists (226 and USP), do either of them have decocking levers and no safety (I know the USP does, but their website says: " SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever for safety and de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side
- SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever only for de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side
- Variant DA Double Action with safety lever for safety function, arranged on the right or left side, without de-cocking lever"

What is this talking about?)?

And is it generally a bad idea to have a pistol holstered (even on the firing line) cocked without a safety on?

-Rohann
 
Rohann said:
Yeah I'm really not a fan of those "safe action" triggers.

No button safety? Hmm...
Regarding my desired finalists (226 and USP), do either of them have decocking levers and no safety (I know the USP does, but their website says:

" SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever for safety and de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side
[V1 and V2]

- SA/DA Variant Double Action/Single Action with safety lever only for de-cocking function, arranged on the right or left side
[V3 and V4]

- Variant DA Double Action with safety lever for safety function, arranged on the right or left side, without de-cocking lever
[V6 and V7]"

What is this talking about?)?

And is it generally a bad idea to have a pistol holstered (even on the firing line) cocked without a safety on?

-Rohann
Click to expand...

(All of those red addons are respectively for Right handed - Left handed)


In reality the only way the trigger is going to get pulled, is if you pull it, or something gets caught in the trigger gaurd (I think this happened with a cop that had a glock, a zipper lanyard thingey snagged the trigger, when he holstered the gun he shot himself in the theigh)


Its generally good practise to have the safety on in SA mode, or have the gun decocked, but if you have a good holster, and are vigilant with making sure nothing gets snagged, you should be fine. I have a friend in the Reserves that has a Sig P226 that usually carries it Single Action, and it doesn't have as safety on it.


As for the USP's controlls, you want a SA/DA with decocker only?

That would be a V3 for a right-handed guy and a V4 for a leftie.

heres the chart, its fairly easy to read:


uspvariants.jpg



My friends P226, is a DA/SA with decocker only, i think in order to get a safety on a Sig you need the "Single Action Only" version.


The USP "variants" are usually pretty easy to configure (although recommended to use an HK certified armouor) and i think they consist of the Detent plate.

To switch from safety/Decocker to Decocker only you'll need the V3 detent plate, to replace the V1. For a leftie, you'll need the right-side safety lever.
 
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And is it generally a bad idea to have a pistol holstered (even on the firing line) cocked without a safety on?
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I would never have a cocked gun in a holster without the safety on. What good reason is there to not use the safety? Mistakes happen. Mostly if you are trying for speed. And if you were not concerned about speed than why would you not use the safety.

If you shoot in IDPA or IPSC then you will be required to have the safety on a gun that is cocked. If the gun does not have a safety then it can not be cocked.

A friend of mine sent me a video last week of some guy who shot his hand, accidentally of course. You could see right through. It was not a pretty sight.

Drawing a loaded cocked gun from a holster is risky. The gun club I am a member of was shut down for half a year because one guy shot himself when he was drawing from a holster. Since that time the club has had a policy on not allowing loaded guns holstered. This changed three years ago. Now we can have loaded revolvers in holsters for cowboy action shooting only. And there can not be a cartridge under the un-cocked hammer. (5 rounds loaded and the empty chamber under the hammer)

There is no good reason to not use the safety on a cocked holstered gun.
 
TheCanuck said:
Meh, I carry a P2000 with no safety, with one in the chamber, every day i work. I don't feel less safe.
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That is not a typical single action trigger either. Would you feel as safe carrying a Browning HiPower cocked with no safety on?

Also how many times do you draw your pistol at work? The biggest concern is the potential danger when you are drawing your gun, not the fact that it is sitting in a holster. Most holsters allowed for real use are good at protecting the gun from unexpected disruption.
 
Rohann said:
beltfed: Oh yeah? I'm not really a fan of the way the M&P looks (and wasn't the biggest fan of the S&W service pistols I shot), but again, if I try it out and it works well, then by all means. So you think it'll shoot as well as a SIG or HK? From what I've heard these two are some of the most accurate stock service 9mm's in the pricerange.
-Rohann
Click to expand...

If you are concerned with looks then add it to your list of requirements.
There is a lot of good advice floating on gunnutz about try before you buy, handle the gun, etc. etc. a lot of personal experiences -some good, some bad about different guns, and a lot of misinformation about this is better than that -again personal opinion...bottom line is buy whatever suits your fancy, and form your own opinion. Try something out for a couple of thousand rounds, and if it doesn't float your boat, sell and buy something else - or keep it, add it to a budding collection....

For your price point, you're into a service type handgun on the lower to mid end of the scale in price. There are a lot of good examples, and if you put them in a machine rest, they would all fair about the same in accuracy -despite what uncle Jed's sister's Brother has to say about it.

As a side note on accuracy, I have two XDs. My first was a .40 S&W model that I couldn't shoot for shIIt when I bought it. I have personally witnessed 'Headdamage' here on the board group 10 rounds into 2" at 25m unsupported.:eek: (the guy makes me sick:rolleyes:) So while I thought the gun blew goats, the reality is I couldn't shoot it. I since turned it around abit, but still not at his level of accuracy.......which leads to the best advice out there....

Get a gun, get some ammo, and practice.........
 
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F22_RaptoR said:
(All of those red addons are respectively for Right handed - Left handed)


In reality the only way the trigger is going to get pulled, is if you pull it, or something gets caught in the trigger gaurd (I think this happened with a cop that had a glock, a zipper lanyard thingey snagged the trigger, when he holstered the gun he shot himself in the theigh)


Its generally good practise to have the safety on in SA mode, or have the gun decocked, but if you have a good holster, and are vigilant with making sure nothing gets snagged, you should be fine. I have a friend in the Reserves that has a Sig P226 that usually carries it Single Action, and it doesn't have as safety on it.


As for the USP's controlls, you want a SA/DA with decocker only?

That would be a V3 for a right-handed guy and a V4 for a leftie.

heres the chart, its fairly easy to read:


My friends P226, is a DA/SA with decocker only, i think in order to get a safety on a Sig you need the "Single Action Only" version.


The USP "variants" are usually pretty easy to configure (although recommended to use an HK certified armouor) and i think they consist of the Detent plate.

To switch from safety/Decocker to Decocker only you'll need the V3 detent plate, to replace the V1. For a leftie, you'll need the right-side safety lever.
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Thanks for the info! I appreciate it.
I don't really know what I'm looking for actually...I guess both would be desireable? Can anyone help me out on this?

Question: so what is the best way to practice quick drawing and firing: double action first shot or cocked with safety on and disengage the safety before shooting? It seems like it'd be faster to have a double-action first shot and not have to disengage a safety.
Also, is doing a first-shot DA safe (having a loaded pistol holstered)?

Rudy_H: Oh okay thanks, I'll stay away from that then.

HKfan: Oh yeah? Why's it so good?

beltfed: Well looks aren't at the very top (function is most important) but I don't want to get something that I find hideous.

Sounds like a good plan, thanks for the advice. That's something I'll most definately do, but for my first pistol I want to find something I like and stick with it (providing I get to try them out first, otherwise I might use your strategy from the get-go).

True! So it really just comes down to preference!

Holy cow, TEN shots in two inches? With your pistol? That's disgusting!
Best advice indeed! Although the reason I'm finding out as much as I can is because I can't get one and shoot it yet :).

-Rohann
 
Rohann said:
Thanks for the info! I appreciate it.
I don't really know what I'm looking for actually...I guess both would be desireable? Can anyone help me out on this?

Question: so what is the best way to practice quick drawing and firing: double action first shot or cocked with safety on and disengage the safety before shooting? It seems like it'd be faster to have a double-action first shot and not have to disengage a safety.
Also, is doing a first-shot DA safe (having a loaded pistol holstered)?

-Rohann
Click to expand...

Usually the best way to for quick drawing is to have the gun cocked & locked, usually the safety comes off whilst the gun is on its way up onto target. The double action is generally a little heavier, and not as good for accuracy.

As for DA for first shot, its perfectly acceptable. A lot of people in the US carry in double action with safety off. For a CCW situation, your not even going to notice the 12 pound trigger, but as for target shooting, it may cost you points because the fast heavy pull MAY take you off target (this is just my experiance)





The best way to find out what your looking for, is to see if you can rent and shoot a couple guns. If you want to have a more standard trigger, thats a little nicer to work with, the Match trigger for the USP's are quite nice, and usually hit 4.5-5 pounds rather than about 7 for Single Action, although Double Action mode is still ~12 pounds.

You can still use Double Action mode with the V1-(SA/DA with Safety and decocker) so you can see if you think the safety is worthwhile or not. If you want to check out SA/DA without safety, the Sig P226 is designed that way, and is a great gun to check out. I think they are a little more common as rental guns.

If you primarily want to use it with the Double Action as the first shot (as many shooting groups like IPSC and IDPA require) then you may want to get the V3-(SA/DA With Decocker only) and skip the safety. You can always #### the hammer if you want, but the decocker is a nice feature to have so you dont have to thumb down the hammer.
 
Ohh okay, so one with just a safety or a safety/decocker would be best then. So if I were going the USP route, variant 1 or 9 would be desirable?

Yeah I guess that's true, but it would be better if I could just get one with a safety (consistency is good). Are there any 226's with safeties?

See I'd love to do that but I don't know where and the place I do know of are fairly impractical for me to get to. So are USP triggers normally around 7lbs? How much does a match trigger cost for one (generally)?

Oh okay good; having both as an option would be good.

Isn't it a better idea to get the V1 with both so that I have either option (does it cost more or are there any downsides?)?

Thanks!
-Rohann
 
I had USP 40, Compact Beretta 92 9mm, Glock 17 and 34, Sig 226R, CZ97B etc

USP was the only gun out of that list I sold w/o firing it... I had it for a week, It sat in the safe, I did not like how it felt in my hands, I found the grip too bulky and the balance was not right, Also felt the plastic frame was brittle, I mean mine flexed and the trigger I was afraid to break it. So I ended up trading it for my SIG, Now I want to sell the SIG 40 and get a 9mm one..

Compact Beretta I did not like, I have small hands and figured the compact model would be slimmer, but it was just as fat as the full size, But grip was so short I could not grip it and it was still heavy and recoiled worst then my 40's or 45 at hotter loads..

CZ 75 was dad's first pistol and I liked how that felt in my hand, But out of all the guns I own (NON tuned IPSC tuned ones, 1911, Glock 34 ) The SIG was the best..
 
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