A max bullets for hunting

Bushbasher

Bushbasher

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Are the a max bullets ok for hunting?
I have some 178 grain for 30-06 wasn’t sure if they’d be ok for deer/moose or just good for target shooting
 
Target bullets with a polymer tip, fast expanding. Should be great on deer, I wouldn’t want to take a quartering shot or on something too heavy, mite not push through enough meat/bone.
 
Should work just as good as Berger hunting bullets, which is not great.
I wouldn't sweat using 178's on deer, probably not moose.
 
Like most said why not use a proven hunting bullet?
I don’t even know why are people asking those questions!
This is one part of hunting ethics in my book, right ammo for the query, know your limits and the limits of your gear, get closer, as close as you can and if it is not inside of your limitation don’t take the shot!
 
"Why asking?" - Is just a guess - I read in a book by W. D. M. Bell about him using pointy (I presume) FMJ in 303 British to take a number of zebra - one shot each - but upon investigation, discover that British military ammo of that era was designed to comply with the Hague Convention - does not expand - but made to tumble fairly viciously after impact - something that modern bullets not typically designed to do - is easy enough to surmise that a tumbling bullet might be very lethal on thin skin game - but about no "direction" implied - which is typically a significant hunting bullet requirement - straight penetration after impact. So yes, can read how pointy FMJ were used effectively to take game - but I think have to also look into the rest of that story to realize that modern pointy FMJ may not do that. Or read in Hornady 9 manual that AMAX "are generally for match shooting" - page 42.

And in my mind is no doubt that a modern pointy FMJ passing through brain case or connecting on spinal cord will kill game animal very dead, right then - but how many have the discipline or the necessary skill to only connect with those shots?
 
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Interesting INFO ! RJ


I was intrigued that on the Hornady site it says the following:

A-MAX®

Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...

Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
These bullets are not recommended for hunting.

V-Max™

The industry's leading varmint bullet with polymer tip and streamlined design results in ultra flat trajectories. The match grade jacket design provides maximum accuracy at all ranges as well as explosive expansion, even at low velocities. Find out more...

Rapid, explosive expansion.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000 to 4000+ fps


I draw your attention to the impact description for both

This confused me as I was always told that AMax were more frangible that VMax
Designed to splatter on steel plates etc.
The marketing description seemed to back this up with the additional "limited penetration" added to the AMax line

However I find from using them in foxes show the opposite with more exits from 52gr AMax (90%) compared to 50gr VMax (15%)

so I wrote to Hornady...
which culminated in a simple direct question:
"Can you tell me what technically differentiates the two products and why AMax particularly are not recommended for hunting?"

Their response:

"Essentially the biggest difference is the V-max does fragment on impact and it is tested and made to do so. The A-max is a match grade bullet and is not tested for expansion as it is a match bullet,
therefore we cannot recommend using it on large game such as red deer/elk.
There are better options for larger game such as the Interlock or GMX bullets.
We appreciate your business.
Thanks again"

Now ignore the "use on game" part for the moment

Marketing Literature
VMax- Rapid and Explosive Expansion
AMax - Rapid and Explosive Expansion with limited penetration

Tech Support response:
VMax- "Designed to fragment in impact and limited penetration"
AMax - "Not tested for expansion or penetration characteristics"
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with hunting game with Amax or Scenar or any other "match bullet" *if* you know what you are doing and understand the limitations of said bullet.
Also some match bullets are better on game than others (Scenars tends to do better on game than Berger Hybrids for example).
Scenars also are generally easier to tune than Amax/ELD-M/ELD-X since they are not a sensitive to seating depth.

A Scenar placed in the right spot with do much better than a gut shot with a Nosler partition or accubond.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5681850/34
34 pages of kills with Scenar match bullets.

True, the ELD-X, ELD-M and Amax do tend to fragment at short range and a Nosler or Barnes or Sako Deerhead/Norma Onyx will do much better. But as distance increases, I'll take the better accuracy, better BC, of a match round because I know where they will hit at distance.
On my 7SAW that I'm currently doing load dev, I will keep the mag inside the rifle loaded with Partitions 150 for shots inside of 150 yards. Past that, it'll be most likely PVA 151s Cayuga but also considering 162 ELD-X/ELD-M since they shoot better than 1/2 moa, in a separate 5 rounds AICS binderless mag. I'll try to fine tune the load so that the POI is very very close between my short range and long range loads and zero on my long range loads.
 
I came across a blog out of New Zealand that talks about using A-Max for hunting game. I recall they used it for long range shots when the impact velocity had dropped. I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it:

https://www.ballisticstudies.com

Look under: Knowledge Base - Wound Research - 30 Cal.
 
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Bushbasher said:
Thanks for the replies I will load them for target shooting only.
Click to expand...

Depends what you're hunting. Bear? Boar? Not what I'd pick. Deer? Not a moments hesitation.

inthehizzy said:
I wouldn't. Use a stouter bullet if you can. The animal deserves the quickest death possible.
Click to expand...

You've never seen amax expansion have you? Not much can kill faster. The only argument I can see is that it Ruins some meat. No shoulders, but stick it in the ribs and it's a miniature grenade.
 
I’ve shot a pile of Deer, mostly Reds and sika with the 162 gr A-Max in a 7x57, +(ELDX 162) pretty common for hunting in New Zealand, found that the kill deer well, shank tends to hold together, and the front 1/2 tears off in chunks, I don’t recall ever not haven full penetration. Will fully pass threw both shoulders of a red hind, or Sika stag,
Having said that, I don’t use them in the Roar (rut) or on Pigs or Samber deer, prefer a more hunting type bullet, B-tip or partition.
Yep Target bullet, but used with common sense, suitable for soft skinned med game.

I will add, don’t push them too fast, or they won’t hold together, 2600 in my 7x57,
 
southernman said:
I’ve shot a pile of Deer, mostly Reds and sika with the 162 gr A-Max in a 7x57, +(ELDX 162) pretty common for hunting in New Zealand, found that the kill deer well, shank tends to hold together, and the front 1/2 tears off in chunks, I don’t recall ever not haven full penetration. Will fully pass threw both shoulders of a red hind, or Sika stag,
Having said that, I don’t use them in the Roar (rut) or on Pigs or Samber deer, prefer a more hunting type bullet, B-tip or partition.
Yep Target bullet, but used with common sense, suitable for soft skinned med game.

I will add, don’t push them too fast, or they won’t hold together, 2600 in my 7x57,
Click to expand...
That is what I remember. Fast and far or slower and shorter.
 
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