First Pistol (Update)

[Rohann]

Thanks for the info!
If only I could handle some!!!

Yeah I'm starting to get drawn toward the SIG a lot more; they have a pretty good reputation with the CF as well as LE officers (from what I hear and see), and I'm starting to like the look of them a lot more.

You found the HK brittle-feeling? Hmm...I guess that's a very user-specific pistol, because I hear a lot about it being uncomfortable. Yours flexed? How so?

-Rohann

 

[RobertMcC]

Thanks for the info!
If only I could handle some!!!

Yeah I'm starting to get drawn toward the SIG a lot more; they have a pretty good reputation with the CF as well as LE officers (from what I hear and see), and I'm starting to like the look of them a lot more.

You found the HK brittle-feeling? Hmm...I guess that's a very user-specific pistol, because I hear a lot about it being uncomfortable. Yours flexed? How so?

-Rohann

Dunno just did not feel as strong. I mean I shoot Glocks in IPSC, But the HK USP I dunno, just didn't fell like the polymer was thick, felt like it flex when I gripped it. Maybe someday I'll test a USP out and see if I still think the same...

 

[TheCanuck]

That is not a typical single action trigger either. Would you feel as safe carrying a Browning HiPower cocked with no safety on?

Also how many times do you draw your pistol at work? The biggest concern is the potential danger when you are drawing your gun, not the fact that it is sitting in a holster. Most holsters allowed for real use are good at protecting the gun from unexpected disruption.

I draw my pistol out every time my team leader or I transport money, wich is about 35 to 40 times per shift. I pull my pistol almost all the way out of the holster, enough so the pistol isnt held by the holster anymore, but just a bit of the gun is still in the holster.

I've never handled a BHP so I couldnt comment on it.

 

[meadowmuffin3]

For those in southwestern Ontario, does anyone know if you can actually test shoot a handgun at Shooters Choice in Waterloo or Epps near Orillia? One of these two shops is where I expect to purchase my first handgun.
And if so, I presume that they would supply the ammo provided of course you pay for what you shoot.

 

[Sinasta]

I draw my pistol out every time my team leader or I transport money, wich is about 35 to 40 times per shift. I pull my pistol almost all the way out of the holster, enough so the pistol isnt held by the holster anymore, but just a bit of the gun is still in the holster.

I've never handled a BHP so I couldnt comment on it.

Why? Are you expecting ninjas to drop from the roofs?

 

[TheCanuck]

Why? Are you expecting ninjas to drop from the roofs?

No, just to be quicker if something happens. 2 security levels duty holsters arent the quickest to draw from, and if some wants to attemp something, he's got the surprise advantage already, so i'm not going to give the crook some more by having my pistol in my holster with the loop on and all. Dude, we do carry BIG amounts.

 

[Rohann]

I draw my pistol out every time my team leader or I transport money, wich is about 35 to 40 times per shift. I pull my pistol almost all the way out of the holster, enough so the pistol isnt held by the holster anymore, but just a bit of the gun is still in the holster.

I've never handled a BHP so I couldnt comment on it.

Ohh okay; what company do you work for? Aren't .38 revolvers generally mandatory?

So isn't a 226 not the best choice then if it doesn't come with a safety? Won't I be limited to quick-drawing DA?

-Rohann

 

[TheCanuck]

Ohh okay; what company do you work for? Aren't .38 revolvers generally mandatory?

So isn't a 226 not the best choice then if it doesn't come with a safety? Won't I be limited to quick-drawing DA?

-Rohann

I work for Garda.

The P226 is a solid pistol. Wichever you go with, you wont be disapointed.

As others have said, try looking for people in your area who have both, or try renting them, and get some trigger time and see wich you prefer

 

[Rohann]

This is fairly unrelated, but I'm thinking of doing armoured car or something for a while after college to make some money. How difficult is it to get into armoured car or a similar security job?

I'm still trying to find people around here with USP's and it's proving to be quite difficult, but if I ever get a chance to rent pistols I will.

Anything else to know?

-Rohann

 

[raks]

I have a USP 45 & a Sig 226 that I shoot for IPSC/IDPA competition. They are both rock solid reliable guns (thousands of rounds through both with no issues). The 226 has a decocker only, there are some Sigs with safetys (X5 for example) but they are not as common and generally more expensive.

I would say that my hands are average and the Sig definitely fits my hands better - it's not a huge difference and the USP 9 & 40's are slightly smaller than the USP 45.

Both guns are more accurate than I am and both are suitable for IPSC/IDPA. Neither is really good for a 'first pistol' IMHO - as Rudy said, a good single action gun is better to learn on - HOWEVER you should definitely get a gun you like and want to shoot, and you'll probably end up with a nice variety of toys down the road...

 

[Rohann]

Thanks for the input.

What makes a single-action better to learn on? Originally I wanted a 1911 but it's a pain trying to find a decent one in 9mm.

-Rohann

 

[Rudy H]

With a single action you are only dealing with one physical action in order for the hammer to fall. You are pulling the sear out of the hammer notch. With a double action you are first pulling on the trigger in order to compress the hammer spring (or striker) and after a certain point the hammer will fall.

With a single action (the cleaner the break the better) you have your sights on target, decide to shoot / pull the trigger, and the hammer falls. With a double action you have your sights on target, decide to shoot / pull the trigger and pull the trigger and pull the trigger, and then the hammer falls.

Not only is the trigger heavier but it also is longer. It take quite a bit of work to pull straight back without pulling the gun off target. A single action gun with a great light trigger provides you with an opportunity for a NOW shot. When your brain decides you sights are on target and it tells your trigger finger NOW and BANG goes the gun.

So now if you are shooting the first shot double action and the remainder single action, you have to learn both. Some guns have a double action pull for every shot. At least there is only one action to learn but unfortunately it is not the best for accuracy.

Some guns are both single and double action but can be cocked for a single action first shot. The CZ-75 is like this. When cocked for single action on the first shot you want (will be required) to have the safety on when in the holster.

But if you can learn to shoot a double action well you should also be great with a single action. Some guns with "safe actions" are a compromise between a single and a double action. The hammer/striker spring is partially compressed so you don't have to pull as hard as a regular double action.

But as raks said, get a gun you like and want to shoot. And no need to stop at one.

 

[beltfed]

All this talk about single action vs. double action is pure b/s.
You buy a pistol, be it DA or SA or both...you dry fire. over and over. You get proficient, regardless of the one you buy....

 

[Sinasta]

No, just to be quicker if something happens. 2 security levels duty holsters arent the quickest to draw from, and if some wants to attemp something, he's got the surprise advantage already, so i'm not going to give the crook some more by having my pistol in my holster with the loop on and all. Dude, we do carry BIG amounts.

You only have level 2 holsters and you think its difficult to draw from? The point for security levels in holsters is to help prevent a gun grab. FFS you might as well use a friction lock bladetec holster. Im surprise you can get away with having your pistol 90% out of your holster.

Are you actually trained to do this or are you just following what the senior guys at your branch do?

 

[Soli]

I'd probably do the same thing. Robbers already have the element of surprise, so if you're going to be caught off-guard, might as well have one thing going for you...

Doesn't hurt anyone to be prepared, or is that too P.I. for you?

 

[Rudy H]

All this talk about single action vs. double action is pure b/s.

And next you are going to tell us that ### feels just as good with a condom.

Sure you can make do with anything if required to. But I would like to see you shoot a gun double action in a bullseye match. Put up a slow fire target and shoot it for the best score with shooting double. How many 10s do you think you will get?

Double action guns are used to improve safety under high stress condition but this is at the expense of accuracy. No BS.

Look back and you will see that I said it is easier to learn to shoot a single action gun well. It takes more work to be able to shoot a double action gun well. If you can then you may be a better shooter since with a double action gun you have to concentrate harder prior to the hammer fall and most likely you will also follow though after the shot.

There are a lot of things to do right when pistol shooting. Sight alignment, trigger control, consistent grip, stance, etc. Learning to shoot double action is just one more thing to take your concentration off all the other things you are trying to do right.

It also depends on what type of shooting you do. In most of the "combat" shooting games you don't have to be all that accurate in most of the shots. The highest scoring zone is quite large and the targets are typically close. (generally this is true but not always) Most guns are good enough for this.

 

[TheCanuck]

You only have level 2 holsters and you think its difficult to draw from? The point for security levels in holsters is to help prevent a gun grab. FFS you might as well use a friction lock bladetec holster. Im surprise you can get away with having your pistol 90% out of your holster.

Are you actually trained to do this or are you just following what the senior guys at your branch do?

Not that it's difficult, but it take like a second longer, and I'd rather have that second for me. And how is someone going to grab my gun when i'm holding it? It's not like i let it out 90% of the holster and walk around clapping my hands.

 

[TheCanuck]

I'd probably do the same thing. Robbers already have the element of surprise, so if you're going to be caught off-guard, might as well have one thing going for you...

Doesn't hurt anyone to be prepared, or is that too P.I. for you?

Thank you!

 

[Sinasta]

Not that it's difficult, but it take like a second longer, and I'd rather have that second for me. And how is someone going to grab my gun when i'm holding it? It's not like i let it out 90% of the holster and walk around clapping my hands.

You didnt answer my other questions.

First off you have your hand on your pistol and it is close to out of your holster. Not very hard at all for someone to do a gun grab even if your hand is on your grip. You having 1 hand on your pistol is not going to stop me using 2 of my hands from taking it from you.

 

[Rohann]

Not that it's difficult, but it take like a second longer, and I'd rather have that second for me. And how is someone going to grab my gun when i'm holding it? It's not like i let it out 90% of the holster and walk around clapping my hands.

Hahahahahaha did that ever conjure up a funny mental picture!

Well I'd call "HIJACK" but this is pretty interesting actually (and calling "hijack" would kind of be ironic considering what you guys are talking about).

Question on double vs. single: something I didn't think about before. How practical would it be to #### the pistol one-handed as it's coming out of the holster (as opposed to flicking off the safety)?

Rudy: I can still learn on a SA/DA can't I? Unless I decock the pistol before I shoot it's going to be SA isn't it (226's are DA/SA are they not?)?

Oh and just for the record, I have a 700P and I actually quite like the palm swell (if that says anything about the size ratio to the USP).

Thanks guys!
-Rohann