do you download cartrdges

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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hey got me wondering, is anyone brave enough to admit on a forum that they actually load 'light' for cartridges and are extremely happy an confident with their reasoning as to why?

whatever the reason for the light load, beit a old gun, sore shoulder, no need due to terrain/method of hunting, to maximise economy etc...wrong powder available, etc...

im sure there are others out there.., im battling this now actually- but im coming around to it fine.. "how much do i reall need & jus because it CAN do something, does it need too....


the modern trend in advertising , an what makes a rifle 'good or not' is often how FAST it can go and how much power it has etc...when many of us hunters know, that anything with decent sights and a moderate velocity with suitable projectile will 'Git er done'...


some might be content with the 'mix' charge load out of their favoured manual- there is alot of pros to this.
some mostly want every drop of "gain' they can get , particularly to post results on forums which ensure a debate to follow...

Whats your example of "loading light" for a Cartridge ? an whats ya reasoning?


Thankssss!
keen for the discussion
 
I have a Merkel K1 in 7RM I download to 7-08 specs, didn't want a 7RM, but, gun was too good a deal to pass up. Also loaded a few different catridges with cast bullets and light loads for 100yd service rifle comps and hunting, chicken loads and etc.
 
Cast bullets in my rifles from 25-20 to 500 jeffery and lots inbetween. They range from 800fps to 2000fps always slower then id push the same weight jacketed bullet so id call it downloaded.

Reason, i like relaoding and casting bullets and trying new things. Also it opens up tonnes of different powers to play with
 
Whelanlad, downloading cartridges is a choice of last resort IMHO.

Why bother, unless you're running out of components, such as powder or can't find the bullet weights you desire??

I prefer going to a smaller cartridge.

If you only have one firearm, that may be a solution, albeit a lousy one IMHO. The firearm has to be regulated to the new ''light'' load, which eats up more valuable components.

I made up a chamber insert for a 30-06, to accept 30M1 carbine cartridges. It was made long enough so that the 30M1 case became the neck and the bullet got as close to the leade as it would have, if I had loaded the 110 grain bullets into a 30-06 case.

The rifle is very accurate with 125 grain SP/flat base bullets, in a 30-06 case.

This was a ''fun'' project only.

The best accuracy I could achieve out of the combination, with the insert was appx 6 inches at 50 yards. Not only that, I didn't factor in neck expansion and how difficult it would be to remove the fired 30M1 case from the insert.

I went with reducing powder charges in different weight bullets, in a couple of different cartridge configurations 30-06/308win/257Rob.

The best performer was the 257 Rob, with all weights of bullets all the way down to 35 grain, meant for the 25acp. Accuracy wasn't spectacular with any given weight or velocity, but it was acceptable out to 100 yards on Coyote sized game down to 85 grain bullets.

The 35 grain 25acp bullets were acceptable for Rabbit size critters out to 50 yards.

I found that it was much better, performance wise, to just go with a firearm chambered for a smaller cartridge.

Downloading large capacity cases is OK, IMHO, if there's no other option available.

On the other hand, I have acquaintances that regularly download quite large capacity cartridges for their rifles and are happy with the results.

One downloads his 35 Whelan with both heavy 250 grain bullets to as low a velocity as his rifle will shoot well, to the point he has to us a Dacron fiber filler to keep the powder at the rear of the case so the primer can ignite it consistently.

He also like to load cast lead bullets in various weights, from 125 grain, up through the rest of the pistol weights, up to heavy weights of 300 grains.

If you're looking to save money? It takes a lot of fiddly load development to get acceptable loads.

I had a 357 mag chambered in a model 92 Rossi, several years ago. I used to download the charge to minimum specs, with cast lead bullets and used a filler. This rifle's main purpose was to slaughter farm animals humanely.
 
Reduced loads can be fun. 4198, trailboss, and unique are excellent powders.

Component prices are what they are, almost always the projectile is the most expensive. Cast is the way to go, for example, a liberalized cast bullet with say 15gr of unique interests 45-70. A light gallery load, hand a " Buffalo gun to a child or slight person. Trailboss is like little cheerios, fills the case to avoid double charges but gives very little energy or velocity. 4198 can push a 30-06 at say 300 Savage velocity. In much the same way, use a less than ideal speed powder to download my 375 rum to ruger level, or a 300 rum to win mag or 06 level.

Two other things; you can do, push say a light 38/357 pistol bullet as a gallery load in say a 358 norma or 35 whelen; use a 410 wad, and wax to build forager/light game shotshells for the 45-70.
 
I often (90%) at a time will load at the minium published powder charge after referencing several reloading books - works well - and is easier on the barrel
 
bearhunter said:
That's great for paper targets.
Click to expand...

BH, how does it differ to meat targets?

also in regard to your first post, you mention downloading using up valuable components ? i dont see how this has any effect realistically... ?

think about it--- if you have all the Ducks nutz components you need OR if you had only what you had..... the Rifle still needs a load somewhat developed- an once developed for intended components, its done, (90% of the time over 10 year span) ?

downloading a 300win mag to 308 spec , doesnt seem to have much dire effect on the outcome for Elk hunter / Deer hunter black bear hunter etc ?

certainly isnt a lousy option to download a one gun arsenal..... makes more sense than not- i do understand guys who do make one blitzing load with a suitable bullet for their largest quarry an using this for everything lesser.. i get that.

its only that you have fixated a certain number to a certain performance chart in ya mind, that none of the above really makes sense :)
 
209jones said:
I have a Merkel K1 in 7RM I download to 7-08 specs, didn't want a 7RM, but, gun was too good a deal to pass up.
Click to expand...

Jonesy, thats the sort of discussion i was seeking.
you get the best of both worlds here..... havin a "magnum", but havin that tameable sweety in the chamber
 
IvoB said:
I often (90%) at a time will load at the minium published powder charge after referencing several reloading books - works well - and is easier on the barrel
Click to expand...

touche i think.

ive seen this alot more often than not- in person i mean.
often the very opposite online LOL
 
For punching paper with my milsurps, I load light with cast bullets with trail boss or red dot. I can load about 500 rounds per pound of powder. My shooting range is 200m max anyway.
 
I.download 357 / 38 for my Henry Big Boy so I can plink off the picnic table up north without annoying the neighbors or having to use ear pro.. come out around 550fps.. very quiet but still ring the plates at 75 yds.
 
I Download :
- the 45/70 for target shooting at 100/200 meters.
- 30/30 for target
- 30/06 in my Garand so not to beat the gun op rod
- 45 Colt
- 44 mag.
- 45 ACP for target one hand shooting
- use a lot of .38 special WC in a .357 revolver.

So answer is yes..full power is not needed to kill paper off a bench.
 
I have recently tried with two cartridges - for introducing grand kids to centre fire rifles and for a local fellow who needs some help to learn to shoot something that makes noise. For this instance, was Start loads in 30-30 Winchester - at the time I did not own a left hand rifle, and the Win 94 was closest that I had for left handed shooters to learn with - turns out a number of grand daughters hand write with their left hand. So Speer #1835 bullets - 110 grain "Varmint" Hollow Points, with Start load from Speer #14 Manual using AA2230 powder - because I have some of that. Primers were CCI BR-2, because I had some. No doubt will play hell on gophers, if we ever hit one!

Next batch was my attempt to reproduce 1906 era USA 30-06 loadings - for two M1917 rifles that I have been "restoring" - I wanted a loading that would more or less follow the ladder sights, as they were built - turns out the original loadings were very mild compared to modern stuff - like 2,700 fps with 150 grain bullets from 26" barrels. Not going to get original powder, primers or bullets, so my attempt was based on suggestions here on CGN - IMR 3031 powder, Hornady #3031 150 grain flat base soft point and Fed 210 primers.

Both loadings are yet to be fired - I guess capable of "milk jug" at 50 yards would be "success" ...
 
I load cast lead bullets with Trail Boss for popping grouse. I also used to make light 6.5x55 loads when my wife first started shooting. She doesn't like recoil much at all. Also dislikes heavy rifles so we ended up getting her a 243 and loading full power ammo.

I'll probably make some more light rounds when my boys are old enough to hunt. They can shoot rimfire and 223 until then.
 
MilitaryCollectorMark said:
I'm going to be loading light for my 300 win mag. 130 gr bullets with base load. Haven't had the experience to build up a tolerience to recoil yet.
Click to expand...

I've done this many times, most recently with a T3x Ultralight in 300 Win Mag (not a pairing I'll experiment with again, oof). 150gr Interlocks at roughly "spicy" .30-06 speeds worked well for me. Still pretty "kicky" though.

I don't like "downloading" proper as I've watched someone have a fairly unpredictable hang-fire from trying to use a below-starting load (believe that was a 7mm-08 with 120's). It was super cringe-inducing, you could hear the trigger click and then pretty much anything up to a full "one Mississippi" before it went off. I put an extra bench between him and I

Using starting data with light bullets will get you a predictable ignition and reliable performance with reasonable recoil so long as you have taken ES/SD into account, depending on the volume/density/energy of the powder charge you might need to play around to find a good, predictable node for best results. Happy shooting!
 
WhelanLad said:
hey got me wondering, is anyone brave enough to admit on a forum that they actually load 'light' for cartridges and are extremely happy an confident with their reasoning as to why?

whatever the reason for the light load, beit a old gun, sore shoulder, no need due to terrain/method of hunting, to maximise economy etc...wrong powder available, etc...

im sure there are others out there.., im battling this now actually- but im coming around to it fine.. "how much do i reall need & jus because it CAN do something, does it need too....


the modern trend in advertising , an what makes a rifle 'good or not' is often how FAST it can go and how much power it has etc...when many of us hunters know, that anything with decent sights and a moderate velocity with suitable projectile will 'Git er done'...


some might be content with the 'mix' charge load out of their favoured manual- there is alot of pros to this.
some mostly want every drop of "gain' they can get , particularly to post results on forums which ensure a debate to follow...

Whats your example of "loading light" for a Cartridge ? an whats ya reasoning?


Thankssss!
keen for the discussion
Click to expand...

It depends

I've stopped trying to drive bullets either slower or faster than published data for the most part. My own Whelen seems to have a fast barrel and I get excellent speeds .2gr below published max with great case life, trimming every 4 firings. My 7mm Rem Mag and .257 Weatherby both like being right at the limit - go find the fastest published data there is and they are happy delivering excellent accuracy and huge velocity. I'll probably pay the price in barrel life (and powder costs now). My .270 Win is a BAR and it likes fairly moderate loads with consistent powders. My old .458 Win Mag liked 405 grain bullets (intended for modern .45-70 loads) driven to just under 2000fps with RL7.

There's just so many variables at play that even tons of experience can't make up for the unpredictability. I have a .30-06 which is my Unicorn. I used published data with StaBALL and 165gr SSTs. I used the same primers, once-fired brass with nearly identical water volume, and worked up to .1 grain below the max data. I noticed no pressure signs even in 30c summer heat. Bolt lift was smooth and extraction and ejection was flawless. Primers look excellent, and are tight but but decap as easily as factory ammo. Necks and case ouths look great. No stretching even after two firings. The published data was 2860fps out of a 24" barrel. Out of the Featherweight-contour 22" barrel on my Model 70: 2950fps. I had to check and re-check my numbers on that one. I loaded another ladder with predictable results. I opened another can of StaBALL, same results.

Literally the most unpredictability I've had reloading has been with starting loads (see my above post). And my experience with "downloaded" cartridges has been poor enough that I wouldn't even bother with it at that point - I'd rather just get a rifle that does what I need. If you need to download below recommended starting loads I suggest (and may be a dissenting voice here) getting a rifle chambered for a cartridge whose ballistics match the characteristics you are trying to achieve.
 
WhelanLad said:
hey got me wondering, is anyone brave enough to admit on a forum that they actually load 'light' for cartridges and are extremely happy an confident with their reasoning as to why?

whatever the reason for the light load, beit a old gun, sore shoulder, no need due to terrain/method of hunting, to maximise economy etc...wrong powder available, etc...

im sure there are others out there.., im battling this now actually- but im coming around to it fine.. "how much do i reall need & jus because it CAN do something, does it need too....


the modern trend in advertising , an what makes a rifle 'good or not' is often how FAST it can go and how much power it has etc...when many of us hunters know, that anything with decent sights and a moderate velocity with suitable projectile will 'Git er done'...


some might be content with the 'mix' charge load out of their favoured manual- there is alot of pros to this.
some mostly want every drop of "gain' they can get , particularly to post results on forums which ensure a debate to follow...

Whats your example of "loading light" for a Cartridge ? an whats ya reasoning?


Thankssss!
keen for the discussion
Click to expand...

a wise man said SPEED is fine..........ACCURACY is final ....you see the most accurate loads in any gun is almost never the fastest......the ability to find ...the load....in any given firearm is a quest that slam bangers are afraid to take on........cast bullets and otherwise the fun is in the good the bad and on occasion the ugly......its you against the unknown ...and always make your notes.......and carry on......reduced loads make lots of firearms get to your hand and not a talk about on the shelf good luck have fun////////////
 
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