Advice needed on First Shotgun to buy

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Mattdog

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I am new to firearms and getting my PAL any day.

I foresee owning both a 12ga and a 20ga. I just have to decide which to buy first - most of you are saying the 12ga first.

But I foresee hunting upland birds before trying my hand at water birds, should I purchase the 20ga as my first shotgun? Then get the 12ga if and when I need it for water birds.

Here's another factor: I do foresee hunting Island black-tailed deer at some time. Could I use either the 20ga or 12ga for this with the correct slug ammo, or just the 12 ga. I also notice Mossberg has a combo 20ga / deer rifle with a two interchangeable barrels. Is this combo gun a good idea or a mediocre compromise of two different tools?

Can either 12ga or 20ga be used for skeet/target shooting? We have a range club nearby.

Thanks again ....

PS My PAL should be arriving any day now ... . Next I plan on challenging the hunting licence exam ...
 
the 12 ga. is the most versitile , with the most ammunition options available. whether you're hunting deer, waterfowl, upland or clays, a 12ga. with 28" or 26" barrels with screw in choke tubes with a 3" chamber(even a 2 3/4 " will do and a 3 1/2" isn't needed) has you covered for anything you want to do with it. you can get cheap ammo for plinking right to the highest quality available. there is a huge selection of good quality used guns on the market. the choice is yours. good luck and enjoy.
 
new Shotgun

stick with a 12g ,,cheaper to shoot, Much better waterfowl gun. You can shoot lighter one once loads if you want
See what fits you what feels right. 870 is hard to beat. Maybe a combo with extra slug barrel if your going to hunt deer.
good luck
 
Just about every dedicated bird hunter I know has both a 20 and a 12 ga gun, to cover upland and waterfowl. So accept the fact that you will most likely also eventually have both a 12 and a 20. If as you say you WILL be doing upland bird hunting first, then go for the 20. 20 ga. target ammo is cheap and available so you can shoot lots while learning. On the clay target field, you're giving up very little by learning with the 20. And the 20 should allow you to shoot more comfortably. In a pinch, you can also shoot ducks and geese over decoys with it.

Finally, the main reason an upland hunter buys a 20 ga. (or smaller) is to get a lighter gun. Don't buy a 20 that weighs 7 lbs.

What kind of gun do you have in mind?
 
a 12 gauge 870 express is probably the best one to start out with. I never regretted that purchase and to date, its my #1 choice for its pure versatility.
 
Pricewise I'd go with a Mossy or 870 in 3 1/2" or MP153 if you like semi's.....these might not be my first picks as I like SxS.....but we don't see many problems from these in the shop.
 
My preference would be a Browning BPS 3" 12G. I like the bottom eject and if you decide to sell it, the lefties will be just as interested.

You're lucky to have to decide. I have 3 hand-me-down, sentimental value, 12 gauges: Beretta A300, Sabatti SxS, and a BRNO ZH201 OU - all of them chambered 2 3/4". The thought of having to add a 4th 12 gauge to be able to shoot 3" is most frustrating.
 
Thank you all for the advice, I copied and pasted all the answers above so I can refer to the them later. My gut is saying 20 gauge to start with (wimp factor) since I will end up with a 12 ga one day anyway and I'm not in any rush, just taking this all slowly ...

Cheers
 
I still say 12 g. The reason i say this is that you are just getting in to hunting so you don't know exactly what you will like the most. It's a good idea to get the most versatile gun you can from the outset because it is impossible to "forsee" how your hunting and shooting "career" will progress. When I started hunting, I thought I'd be doing almost exclusively deer and pheasant hunting. As it turns out, I got extremely hooked on grouse and duck hunting and spend about 70% of my time going after those animals.... but this could change again in the future.

The only advantage the 20g has is that it is a little lighter for any given gun (but you can compensate for this by buying a lighter designed 12g like a recoil-operated semi). The 12g is the most versatile gun on the planet. Anything on the island will go down at the hands of a 12g. And just because it's a big gun, it doesn't mean everything it shoots is going to knock your shoulder off. The lightest 2 3/4 loads have virtually no felt recoil.
 
Mattdog said:
I am new to firearms and getting my PAL any day.

I foresee owning both a 12ga and a 20ga. I just have to decide which to buy first - most of you are saying the 12ga first.

But I foresee hunting upland birds before trying my hand at water birds, should I purchase the 20ga as my first shotgun? Then get the 12ga if and when I need it for water birds.

Here's another factor: I do foresee hunting Island black-tailed deer at some time. Could I use either the 20ga or 12ga for this with the correct slug ammo, or just the 12 ga. I also notice Mossberg has a combo 20ga / deer rifle with a two interchangeable barrels. Is this combo gun a good idea or a mediocre compromise of two different tools?

Can either 12ga or 20ga be used for skeet/target shooting? We have a range club nearby.

Thanks again ....

PS My PAL should be arriving any day now ... . Next I plan on challenging the hunting licence exam ...
Click to expand...

Most 20 gauge pumps use the same receiver as a 12 gauge in the same model - so there's no advantage to buying, for instance a 20 gauge model 870 over a 12 gauge model 870 as far as weight savings go.

If you only want one pump- buy a 12 gauge. You can buy winchester "low velocity low noise" 12 gauge shotshells that are the equivalen of 20 gauge field loads if you go grouse hunting (try winchesters "low noise low recoil" 12 gauge shells - they are great).

Later if you want to buy a 20 gauge for upland birds you can get a real grouse gun - a o/u or side by side shotgun and you'll never regret it.

Its not really a problem either way though. My son uses a 20 gauge winchester 1300 and does well on ducks within 30-35 yds. I used a 12 gauge pump for everything for 20 years. It works.
 
20 for Grouse & Chukar
12 for Geese & mighty ducks lol

Go the route of the 12 and use lower charged shells for the grouse, or you'll dust them if you hit them dead on with a full field load.

Good luck.
 
Okay 12 gauge getting many votes.

Leaving aside the gauge how do you guys compare the Remington 870 Express and the Browning BPS Hunter models? They both look really attractive and get great reviews, the 870 is at least $150 cheaper. The BPS ejects shells underside which is good for lefties and appeals to me so they aren't flying around. It seems to come with a whole bunch of chokes as well. Does the 870 allow you to change chokes for different game? Someone mentioned the bottom eject is a problem for trap shooting - Is that true? I will be doing some skeet shooting first to learn how to shoot.

Another naive question:
Can a 20 gauge 3" load approach the effect of a 12 gauge for the larger water birds. In other words cant you make a 20 gauge quite versatile as well?

Aside: I just realized that in terms of food density, water birds, esp geese, would be more efficient to hunt if you are wanting to optimize the effort to calorie ratio. Maybe they are more difficult to actually bag compared to uplands though entailing greater effort?

FYI my medium term objective, though that could change in a heartbeat, is to hunt for food. I'm getting into this for practical reasons.
 
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If it's for practical reasons / sustenance then the answer is 12 gauge - end of story.

If you plan on sustaining yourself on upland birds (I'm thinking grouse), you will die. The stats for ruffies are: on 12 "encounters", 4 present shots, and 1 is harvested. My own personal records back this up. Couple this with my 2007 season flush rate of .75 per hour and I'd be pretty hungry.

Get yourself a 12 gauge chambered in 3". Go to a store and pick up a couple to see what they feel like. Better yet, go to a gunsmith / stock fitter, have your measurements taken and arm yourself with information: length of pull, drop at heel, and cast.
 
If you were like me when I started out hunting, I went for upland birds because the equipment requirements were essentially - gun. Ducks and geese, now this is where the gear comes in. Waders, coats, blinds, decoys, calls, camo clothing, etc.

Someone said a very good point - that a number of pumps aren't built on a 20 ga. frame. Do your homework to find out which ones are indeed lighter. Remember, you are going to be carrying that gun for MILES after grouse so finding a 20 that weighs 6 pounds will be a great advantage over a 7 lb gun. And a 12 is going to weigh even more than 7. Me, I'd look for an Ithaca 37 in 20 ga, or an LT-20 1100 Remington.

As for the 3" 20 on ducks and geese, steel is going to be limited. Keep the birds over the decoys and you'll do fine. Bismuth will hit harder than lead, so you have that option, too, for the limited waterfowl shooting you may do with the 20.
 
looch said:
If you plan on sustaining yourself on upland birds (I'm thinking grouse), you will die. .
Click to expand...

:) no argument there

Seriously though, considering gas money, time/effort spent and gear costs, no bird hunting is going to pay for itself. Yes, you can get lots of meat from geese (not ducks) but it takes time to get good at bringing them down and waterfowling is very gear oriented... and the gear is not cheap.

Deer and moose hunting are probably the absolute best in terms of cost-effort/calorie ratio... Nothing really REQUIRED but a gun and tags and much less effort to hunt these animals than other big game.

It would probably be better to compare the BPS to the 870 wingmaster. The fit and finish is about the same between those two, but the express really will bring down just as many birds. All these guns will come with all the screw-in chokes you need.
 
Fit is very important

Don't forget to throw as many 12s or 20s to your shoulder as you can before making a final decision. Fit is very important. Brownings and CZ fit me very well, but my friends find other guns fit them better.

First gun is always the most fun.
 
also consider the beneli supernova, it has the comfortec, i have the 870,very good gun, but am thinking of upgrading, i am a lefty so the bottom eject is a plus, browing has a $75 mail in rebate on their 3-1/2 inch bps,
 
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