Webley mk3 all antique now?

KotKotofeich

KotKotofeich

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I seem to recall there was a cutoff, but I was poking in the FRT and it says they are all antique if in 45acp or 455? FRN 120532... though FRN 23400 is still there but only lists 152mm barrels as restricted (!). Anyone want to double check?

Anyone have a prohib (or even restricted if any) mk3 they want to sell me to see if I can get it out of registration jail? :p
 
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KotKotofeich said:
I seem to recall there was a cutoff, but I was poking in the FRT and it says they are all antique if in 45acp or 455? FRN 120532... though FRN 23400 is still there but only lists 152mm barrels as restricted (!). Anyone want to double check?

Anyone have a prohib (or even restricted if any) mk3 they want to sell me to see if I can get it out of registration jail? :p
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I called the CFP lab a few years ago about Mark III serial number ranges and was told by the tech that all Mark III Webley's in 455 were considered antiques
 
freemanriveradventures said:
Kind of .... All Mark III service made by Webley are antique.. All Mark III service made by Webley & Scott are not antique and this is where the serial number cut off comes in.
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I don't know if that's correct (at least as far as the FRT goes which exists in its own reality) any more either?

Both FRN entries are for "mk3 service"

120532 only has antique entries

23400 only has a restricted entry for 152mm barrel, rest are antique.

Is there another FRN you were thinking of?

I guess I'll see, I submitted a mk3 to the lab for a letter...
 
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KotKotofeich said:
I don't know if that's correct (at least as far as the FRT goes which exists in its own reality) any more either?

Both FRN entries are for "mk3 service"

120532 only has antique entries

23400 only has a restricted entry for 152mm barrel, rest are antique.

Is there another FRN you were thinking of?

I guess I'll see, I submitted a mk3 to the lab for a letter...
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120532 is for Mark III service manufactured by Webley all entries are antique
23400 is for Mark III service manufactured by Webley & Scott. Not all entries are antique.
 
fritzhanzel said:
Webley & Son marking on the left side of the frame is antique.
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Not always, depends on the model and how the techs feel on that day. Those were used all the way up to 1909. Or sometimes not used at all when they should have been. Just saw a mk I recently with no such stamp. And earlier a mk IV (which are considered way past the 98 cutoff) with one.
 
jord21 said:
So what is the difference? Markings? Logo? Is there a final answer?
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Webley amalgamated with W&C Scott in October of 1897, at the same time as the Mk III was accepted by the war department although production started as early as 1894. Early specimens still say P. Webley & Son, later ones say Webley & Scott. Also, "civilian" versions of the Mk III were still made after the turn of the century. The Mk III was only in use until 1899. I guess it would be important to get a "service" model - the one marked "WD", and the "prawl" on the grip strap. It's a tough one to identify for sure.
 
Old Guns Canada said:
Webley amalgamated with W&C Scott in October of 1897, at the same time as the Mk III was accepted by the war department although production started as early as 1894. Early specimens still say P. Webley & Son, later ones say Webley & Scott. Also, "civilian" versions of the Mk III were still made after the turn of the century. The Mk III was only in use until 1899. I guess it would be important to get a "service" model - the one marked "WD", and the "prawl" on the grip strap. It's a tough one to identify for sure.
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Just want to make sure I understand... what's this 'prawl on the grip strap' ?
 
So the ones marked “WD” as in the broad arrow or there are actual WD stamps? Also I am a little confused on the “pawl”, I did a quick google search and it seems that is the jump on the grip strap but I thought those were mark ones? Another site says that the pawl is another name for the hand that cycles the cylinder. Not doubting, just asking. Also in my searches online it seems the winged hollow bullet is civilian use as well as the 476/455 stamp. I can’t for the life of me find a gun that says p webley & sons or a w&C Scott stamp. All I’ve seen online is webley over mark iii over patents.

Thanks in advance for dealing with all these questions.
 
WD stamps are the broad arrow. The definitive one is the one on the frame.

Still hoping OGC explains what he meant, my thoughts were along the same lines as yours. I'm no expert but I know a thing or two, still confused :)

My understanding is that if there is no W&S hollow base winged bullet, the lab interprets it as "there is no proof it's made by Webley & Sons". A letter from the Webley archives will be helpful.

I have pictures of a mkiV that was marked with the W&S hollow winged bullet on the frame and had a Webley and Son rollmark on the barrel - none of that mattered - denied antique status. So I'd say those markings are not relevant unless the lab decides they are :)

It's an adventure - good luck!
 
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Here is a picture of my mark 1 that I used to own. No winged bullet, no markings on the right side of frame. Covered in WD broad arrows.

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The "Prawl" is a hump on the rear of the frame, at the top of the grip strap. It was standard on the Mk I and eliminated on the Mk II. According to the RCMP description it was used again on the service models of the Mk III. I can't say for sure, so maybe they are confused about that one. The most important part of the Mk III is the fact that it has to have the WD stamp on it to be classified as a "service" model. The large arrow on top just means it has been removed from service (so there should also be a few WD stamps somewhere). Apparently only the commercial models had the caliber markings 450/455 or 455/476 on the left barrel lug.
A "pawl" on the other hand is the hand which moves the cylinder to the next chamber when the hammer is cocked.
 
Awesome, thank you for clarifying I mis-read the pawl/prawl on your post.

Ok so as I understand it if it is a Mark iii Service made by webley it is antique and if it is made by webley and Scott it may be restricted/prohib based on barrel length and age. The difference webley & Scott = bulet with wings. Webley made guns will only have “webley” over “mark iii” over “patents” and lots of broad arrow military marks?
 
Old Guns Canada said:
The "Prawl" is a hump on the rear of the frame, at the top of the grip strap. It was standard on the Mk I and eliminated on the Mk II. According to the RCMP description it was used again on the service models of the Mk III. I can't say for sure, so maybe they are confused about that one. The most important part of the Mk III is the fact that it has to have the WD stamp on it to be classified as a "service" model. The large arrow on top just means it has been removed from service (so there should also be a few WD stamps somewhere). Apparently only the commercial models had the caliber markings 450/455 or 455/476 on the left barrel lug.
A "pawl" on the other hand is the hand which moves the cylinder to the next chamber when the hammer is cocked.
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Thanks for clarifying where your info came from. Pretty sure they are confused re: use of 'prawl' past mk I as most literature specifies it was done away with. I'd be very interested to see any examples to check if it was perhaps a depot made mix-master :)

As far as WD stamps go - that may be what the lab said at one time but I have an example here with the military markings on all the parts including the frame, (no 'removed from service' mark too btw) and it was denied very recently. And I don't think they were wrong in that btw. Just wanted to point out that the WD mark is not a sure thing in the determination.
 
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