Last Dream Gun

Sniffer

Sniffer

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As we all know King Turdhole has used the firearms community as political football once again and a handgun import ban & freeze is in the pipeline.

This resulted in me moving some guns that I never "gelled" with and picking up some that I did (already had a Shadow2 which I love so I picked up a new Shadow 2 optics ready and a 22 Kadet kit for it as well as a tricked out 22/45).

Questions:

1) I was / am wary of picking up more as I buy my guns to use / shoot and in previous grandfathering type scenarios my understanding is that the government basically turned affected firearms into ornaments by stopping issuing ATTs. I haven't been reading up a ton on this as it puts me in a foul mood, now I know it is impossible to get inside the head of a Liberal (not sure I would want to anyways) but have they indicated this may become a thing with this latest gun grab?Reason why I ask is I have an itch for something high end - which leads on to question 2.....

2) I have an itch for several dream guns (listed below) but I know at this point my options are getting limited. In an ideal world I think it would be a 2011 of some kind, most likely an Atlas (really like the look of their guns and the reviews are glowing). This gun be in 9 minor and could run irons or an optic. I say that as I had an optic gun but never really got along with it and seemed to prefer irons (will be trying again though with the Shadow 2 optics ready) but as time wears on and my eyes take a dump I think it may be prudent. I would appreciate any feedback on the guns listed to try and make a decision (I will need a large amount of luck too thanks to King Turdhole). Please note in an ideal world I would probably pick up several of these over time as funds allow but thats not.

A) Atlas 2011 of some kind in 9 minor with irons and optic (open to other similar guns SVI / STI etc)

B) CZ Czechmate open gun as it looks pretty similar to my Shadow 2 so the feel would be familiar and I imagine they are super accurate.If it is anything like my Shadows it should be super reliable. Not sure about running 9 Major though (my understanding is that you need to to make the comp work correctly) as I have read about brass failures which gets messy.

C) Other 2011 style open gun like a Bul or similar. How fickle are these? Some folks reckon they are fussy / high maintenance and others dont think that is an issue. The trigger on 2011 style guns is supposed to be sublime.

D) Laugo Alien. This guns looks intriguing / cool and ticks all the boxes but (this is gonna sound weird) it doesn't have a safety to rest your thumb on which I really like now.

As mentioned before I know I will need a miracle to make it happen now but figuring out which is the best fit is step one so I would appreciate any help.
 
I don't know if I'd count on any of these race guns (Czechmate, 2011s, etc) to be exceedingly accurate. They're built to go as fast as possible, not necessarily to be as accurate as possible. They might be laser beams, but that wouldn't be the reason I'd buy one or not.

If I had to choose between the guns on your list, I think I'd go with an Alien. They're just so unique and innovative. A slicked up 2011 would also not be a terrible choice, but they're most useful if you're competing at the highest levels in IPSC/other competitions.
 
Scotty454 said:
I don't know if I'd count on any of these race guns (Czechmate, 2011s, etc) to be exceedingly accurate. They're built to go as fast as possible, not necessarily to be as accurate as possible. They might be laser beams, but that wouldn't be the reason I'd buy one or not.

If I had to choose between the guns on your list, I think I'd go with an Alien. They're just so unique and innovative. A slicked up 2011 would also not be a terrible choice, but they're most useful if you're competing at the highest levels in IPSC/other competitions.
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That would be the part of the plan, I compete in IPSC now in Production with a Shadow 2 and this would give me more options for the future.

Truth is I`m not really ready to make the move to another division but if I dont get something now that ship may sail forever and then I will be kicking myself.
 
Scotty454 said:
If I had to choose between the guns on your list, I think I'd go with an Alien. They're just so unique and innovative.
Click to expand...

+1

The Alien, having such an innovative design and high-end features, is surprisingly also eligible to run in IPSC Production, so you can have another pistol to compete with without having to move to another division.
 
Shinato said:
+1

The Alien, having such an innovative design and high-end features, is surprisingly also eligible to run in IPSC Production, so you can have another pistol to compete with without having to move to another division.
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Yeah I cant argue with that.
 
Out of curiosity why are so may 2011s in .40? Is there an advantage to .40 over 9mm in these guns in their respective IPSC classes (Limited or Standard)?

What is the criteria for Limited & Standard in IPSC?. Open / Production / Production Optics are pretty straight forward but these two classes are a mystery to me.

Kind clueless about this stuff but assuming they shoot minor in those classes in my mind a 9mm would shoot softer (and I am set up for 9mm hence my preference for a 9mm gun) but I may be missing something.
 
Sniffer said:
Out of curiosity why are so may 2011s in .40? Is there an advantage to .40 over 9mm in these guns in their respective IPSC classes (Limited or Standard)?

What is the criteria for Limited & Standard in IPSC?. Open / Production / Production Optics are pretty straight forward but these two classes are a mystery to me.

Kind clueless about this stuff but assuming they shoot minor in those classes in my mind a 9mm would shoot softer (and I am set up for 9mm hence my preference for a 9mm gun) but I may be missing something.
Click to expand...

Easier to make major with a 180 grain bullet than a 124 grain bullet? I don't shoot IPSC, but I assume no one is shooting a .40 in minor. Wouldn't make sense... You can hit 170 PF with factory .40 S&W, AFAIK?
 
I just looked over the rules for Standard & Classic and from what I can tell Classic guns would be single stack 1911 style non production class guns.

So 2011s etc would fall into Standard? And from what I can tell you can shoot Major & Minor in Standard, so how does that work - separate class for each (ie Standard Major & Standard Minor) or all in the same class (which would seem odd as Minor would much softer to shoot and thus an advantage)?.
 
Sniffer said:
I just looked over the rules for Standard & Classic and from what I can tell Classic guns would be single stack 1911 style non production class guns.

So 2011s etc would fall into Standard? And from what I can tell you can shoot Major & Minor in Standard, so how does that work - separate class for each (ie Standard Major & Standard Minor) or all in the same class (which would seem odd as Minor would much softer to shoot and thus an advantage)?.
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Um... Aren't major and minor scored differently? Of course there's the softer recoil advantage to minor, but the advantage to major is you get more friggin points or whatever. Charlies are worth more, yeah?
 
Scotty454 said:
Um... Aren't major and minor scored differently? Of course there's the softer recoil advantage to minor, but the advantage to major is you get more friggin points or whatever. Charlies are worth more, yeah?
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Ok, so that makes more sense, starting to see where 40 fits in.
 
Sniffer said:
Out of curiosity why are so may 2011s in .40? Is there an advantage to .40 over 9mm in these guns in their respective IPSC classes (Limited or Standard)?

What is the criteria for Limited & Standard in IPSC?. Open / Production / Production Optics are pretty straight forward but these two classes are a mystery to me.

Kind clueless about this stuff but assuming they shoot minor in those classes in my mind a 9mm would shoot softer (and I am set up for 9mm hence my preference for a 9mm gun) but I may be missing something.
Click to expand...

Limited division is in USPSA, Standard in IPSC, and they are not the same. .40 = major PF = scoring advantage
From my limited understanding of internal ballistics, 9 major works better than .40 in Open because of its higher pressure that helps drive the compensator.

I use Shadow 2 Optics as the main unit, and recently picked up a Sig RXP Xfull LEO as backup. If the optics on the shadow dies during a match, a complete backup rig will keep me in the game.

Also thinking about an open gun before that ship sails. Missed a great deal on STI a few days ago. One possibility is to buy a 75B or Shadow 1 now and build it into a custom 9 major blaster later. It won’t be much cheaper, but an interesting engineering challenge by itself.
 
5.45 said:
Limited division is in USPSA, Standard in IPSC, and they are not the same. .40 = major PF = scoring advantage
From my limited understanding of internal ballistics, 9 major works better than .40 in Open because of its higher pressure that helps drive the compensator.

I use Shadow 2 Optics as the main unit, and recently picked up a Sig RXP Xfull LEO as backup. If the optics on the shadow dies during a match, a complete backup rig will keep me in the game.

Also thinking about an open gun before that ship sails. Missed a great deal on STI a few days ago. One possibility is to buy a 75B or Shadow 1 now and build it into a custom 9 major blaster later. It won’t be much cheaper, but an interesting engineering challenge by itself.
Click to expand...

Yep, that thought keeps running through my head too.

Sounds like I could buy a 2011 in 9mm but I would be at a disadvantage in IPSC and I dont really want to get into 40 so.......
 
5.45 said:
Limited division is in USPSA, Standard in IPSC, and they are not the same. .40 = major PF = scoring advantage
From my limited understanding of internal ballistics, 9 major works better than .40 in Open because of its higher pressure that helps drive the compensator.

I use Shadow 2 Optics as the main unit, and recently picked up a Sig RXP Xfull LEO as backup. If the optics on the shadow dies during a match, a complete backup rig will keep me in the game.

Also thinking about an open gun before that ship sails. Missed a great deal on STI a few days ago. One possibility is to buy a 75B or Shadow 1 now and build it into a custom 9 major blaster later. It won’t be much cheaper, but an interesting engineering challenge by itself.
Click to expand...

I actually bought one of the ugly 2-tune SP-01 Shadows nobody likes to do just that. I'm a machinist, so this was just kind of a pet project to see if it would work out. Ported the barrel, and I'm running a higher volume of a slower powder (5 grains of auto comp). I'm not quite running major PF velocities out of it, but it is noticeable anyways. More felt recoil, which seems counter-productive, but the the increased gas volume/pressure venting out of the upward facing ports really tames down the muzzle rise. So it ends up just pushing straight back and allowing you to maintain your sight picture (Similar reason the alien concept is so good, barrel in-line with your hand means less muzzle flip).

See: Franken Shadow. lol

Ghetto-Race-Gun-2.jpg
 
Scotty454 said:
I actually bought one of the ugly 2-tune SP-01 Shadows nobody likes to do just that. I'm a machinist, so this was just kind of a pet project to see if it would work out. Ported the barrel, and I'm running a higher volume of a slower powder (5 grains of auto comp). I'm not quite running major PF velocities out of it, but it is noticeable anyways. More felt recoil, which seems counter-productive, but the the increased gas volume/pressure venting out of the upward facing ports really tames down the muzzle rise. So it ends up just pushing straight back and allowing you to maintain your sight picture (Similar reason the alien concept is so good, barrel in-line with your hand means less muzzle flip).

See: Franken Shadow. lol
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Looks good!
Add a longer TS2 barrel and a compensator to take it up a notch.
TS2 barrel may need to be fitted to the slide and threaded: M14x1 for CZ comps or M14x0.75 for Tanfoglio. Possibly shortened too: TS2 is 130 mm, Shadow 1 is 114 mm.
There's a long thread on Enos forums discussing these builds.
 
Shinato said:
Phoenix Redback might be another good option. It's based on the CZ75 design, but with much improved build quality and a higher degree of refinement. The DA/SA version is also eligible in IPSC Production.
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Thanks for the link.

It looks pretty awesome in that video and is basically a Shadow 2 on steroids.

Big question is - is it available in Canada?
 
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