Setting up my MnP for IPSC

C

Canadian gunner 556

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Good morning shooters,

I'm looking to get more into IPSC very soon, just need to find a black badge course. I've been shooting for a while now, and done some ORA/DCRA matches, & took advanced pistol 1 with TDSA. So that's my background.

Anyway, I have an M&P9 that I've had custom work done to since I first got it, which disqualifies it from being used in production class.
And if it's going to be an open gun anyway, I may as well go all the way. I'm getting the slide milled for a red dot soon, (also taking suggestions for that) however I'm also interested in a competition magwell with the mags & basepads to go along with it.
I'm aware that the factory S&W M&P mags won't work with this due to their design.

Basically I'm looking for suggestions on the most accessible (in Canada) & quality magwell, mags, & basepads I can get my hands on.
Also, it looks like I'll need a new holster to fit the red dot. I was thinking either solely Canadian or Gray fox, but I'll take suggestions.
 
The IPSC Production rules changes a few years back to allow more modifications in Production. So depending on when someone told you it isn't allowed, that might have changed.
 
Canadian gunner 556 said:
Good morning shooters,

I'm looking to get more into IPSC very soon, just need to find a black badge course. I've been shooting for a while now, and done some ORA/DCRA matches, & took advanced pistol 1 with TDSA. So that's my background.

Anyway, I have an M&P9 that I've had custom work done to since I first got it, which disqualifies it from being used in production class.
And if it's going to be an open gun anyway, I may as well go all the way. I'm getting the slide milled for a red dot soon, (also taking suggestions for that) however I'm also interested in a competition magwell with the mags & basepads to go along with it.
I'm aware that the factory S&W M&P mags won't work with this due to their design.

Basically I'm looking for suggestions on the most accessible (in Canada) & quality magwell, mags, & basepads I can get my hands on.
Also, it looks like I'll need a new holster to fit the red dot. I was thinking either solely Canadian or Gray fox, but I'll take suggestions.
Click to expand...

As a general comment this gun will not be competitive in Open. I know that with the current situation with firearm legislation and availability of pistols this maybe out of your control and a more suited firearm would not be available.

Since you have not given the details of what mods have been done it is hard to give the proper info. Check the rules at the IPSC.org to see if the gun would work in Production or if you want to shoot an optic maybe Production Optics.

DoubleTap sports maybe able to hook you up with gear also.
 
Just my opinion, but I think it is foolish to make these modifications at this time. Assuming that it is both reliable and safe, your pistol is suitable for use during your Black Badge. Following your successful completion of your first few matches, and thus better-armed with information from those experiences, you'll be in a better position to decide what changes (if any) that you might want to make, but that's better left for later - not now.
 
Canadian gunner 556 said:
I'm looking to get more into IPSC very soon, ....
Also, it looks like I'll need a new holster to fit the red dot....
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with what has been written here: If you want to win IPSC, there's generally a pretty clear checklist to follow when it comes to gear selection. And Wendell is right on the money suggesting that the best approach is to let experience be your guide.

But I'll add a different perspective: Not everybody shoots IPSC to win, and there's plenty to be said for shooting your pistol just the way you want. The focus can be on improving yourself and your shooting, or just straight up having fun. The game of IPSC is a great format for any of these orientations.

Regarding your holster, you may be able to modify your current one (heat gun and/or dremel), but I can't remember if there are IPSC rules about that.
 
SVISTI1911 said:
As a general comment this gun will not be competitive in Open. I know that with the current situation with firearm legislation and availability of pistols this maybe out of your control and a more suited firearm would not be available.

Since you have not given the details of what mods have been done it is hard to give the proper info. Check the rules at the IPSC.org to see if the gun would work in Production or if you want to shoot an optic maybe Production Optics.

DoubleTap sports maybe able to hook you up with gear also.
Click to expand...

I've checked out the IPSC site for specifications, it appears my pistol falls into one of the classes between production and open.

My M&P has a fully stippled frame, undercut trigger guard, apex competition trigger kit & aluminum trigger.
On the slide there's a lightning cut on top (about 1.5" long & 0.5" wide, barrel is visible) the rear factory sight I filled in the white dots so it's all black, & I have a Fibre optic trijicon front sight. Barrel is also TiN coated.
 
Wendell said:
Just my opinion, but I think it is foolish to make these modifications at this time. Assuming that it is both reliable and safe, your pistol is suitable for use during your Black Badge. Following your successful completion of your first few matches, and thus better-armed with information from those experiences, you'll be in a better position to decide what changes (if any) that you might want to make, but that's better left for later - not now.
Click to expand...

I'm not so much concerned about the black badge course, even with a stock factory gun I don't think it would be an issue. Just trying to get advice from more familiar IPSC shooters based on my situation
 
SVISTI1911 said:
As a general comment this gun will not be competitive in Open. I know that with the current situation with firearm legislation and availability of pistols this maybe out of your control and a more suited firearm would not be available.

Since you have not given the details of what mods have been done it is hard to give the proper info. Check the rules at the IPSC.org to see if the gun would work in Production or if you want to shoot an optic maybe Production Optics.

DoubleTap sports maybe able to hook you up with gear also.
Click to expand...

Also buying an entire new pistol is a bit out of reach for me right now, especially the kind I would need. I know 1911s and CZs are the most popular in IPSC, but I've also seen or heard of polymer pistols being used so I was figuring that I could set mine up for it.
 
I'm not to set on which class I want to compete in, basically I just want to shoot competitively and get as good as I can. If I can do it to win and be competitive & advance further that would be amazing, so i don't want to do it just for the experience.
 
It's your money, do what you want. A modified M&P can be beautiful (and I'm aware of this, because I've done it), but it's still an M&P, it's still worth less than you've spent on it, and it's still probably less competitive than an out-of-the-box Shadow (let alone a Shadow 2). Again, just my opinion, but people on a budget do not save money paying companies to modify their existing gun. It would be far less expensive for an individual to buy new - out of the box - than to modify, and modify, and modify, in a mistaken attempt to 'save money'.
 
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Canadian gunner 556 said:
Ok... so based on the division requirements, it looks like I would have to compete in standard division.
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Based on what I have seen you listed for the modifications that seems correct but keep in mind that an optic is not permitted and you would be shooting minor power factor. The power factor is not that important if you shoot accurately and get A's they score the same in minor and major. The other requirement to be mindful of is to make that the sure gun with a mag inserted fits in the box otherwise you will be put into open. The dimensions of the box are within the rules where the requirements are set out for standard division. The shooter and their skill is often more important that what is stamped on the side of the slide.

If you are just looking to shoot and have fun don't worry too much about what division you will fall into, just go shoot and have fun with the gear you have. But if you are keen on competing in a certain division certain guns are more suited to a division. Double Action, Polymer and striker fired guns (ie Glock, CZ, Tanfo etc.) are more common in Production and Production Optics but have many restrictions on modifications, mostly they are meant to be out of the box type thing but the rules have allowed for some modifications. For Open and Standard you are looking at 2011s, 1911s some CZ and Tanfos. For Classic it must be a single stack 1911 and either 8 or 10 rounds. Revolver speaks for itself but some revolvers would be in open depending on the configuration of the gun.

Your biggest hurdle may not be price of getting a new gun it would be availability due to the stupid gun regs set forth recently. Ottawa has a large community of skilled IPSC shooters get out to a club or a match and talk to the people there. Watch the matches and see what is going on, this may help you answer many questions.
 
Canadian gunner 556 said:
I've checked out the IPSC site for specifications, it appears my pistol falls into one of the classes between production and open.

My M&P has a fully stippled frame, undercut trigger guard, apex competition trigger kit & aluminum trigger.
On the slide there's a lightning cut on top (about 1.5" long & 0.5" wide, barrel is visible) the rear factory sight I filled in the white dots so it's all black, & I have a Fibre optic trijicon front sight. Barrel is also TiN coated.
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Ok, the trigger kit and Aluminum trigger is perfectly fine for IPSC. The stippled frame is probably OK too. Pretty sure nobody at any L1 or L2 matches is going to care. L3 is a different story though as they tend to get a bit picky on "the rules". Where you're going to have issues though is on the slide lightening cuts. That's a big no no for production type pistols. That automatically will get you bumped to either standard or open regardless. If it's got an optic on it then you'll 100% get bumped to open.
I know a few guys that run tricked out Glocks and they all are in standard division.
You'll also get the added bonus of being in minor which also automatically puts you at a disadvantage to all the guys running 2011s in major PF.

I suggest you just take the Black Badge, and if all you want to do is have fun and shoot, then come on out and enjoy the sport!
 
Aeroguy said:
Ok, the trigger kit and Aluminum trigger is perfectly fine for IPSC. The stippled frame is probably OK too. Pretty sure nobody at any L1 or L2 matches is going to care. L3 is a different story though as they tend to get a bit picky on "the rules". Where you're going to have issues though is on the slide lightening cuts. That's a big no no for production type pistols. That automatically will get you bumped to either standard or open regardless. If it's got an optic on it then you'll 100% get bumped to open.
I know a few guys that run tricked out Glocks and they all are in standard division.
You'll also get the added bonus of being in minor which also automatically puts you at a disadvantage to all the guys running 2011s in major PF.

I suggest you just take the Black Badge, and if all you want to do is have fun and shoot, then come on out and enjoy the sport!
Click to expand...

Sounds good I'll make more decisions after I do my black badge.
 
Aeroguy said:
Ok, the trigger kit and Aluminum trigger is perfectly fine for IPSC. The stippled frame is probably OK too. Pretty sure nobody at any L1 or L2 matches is going to care. L3 is a different story though as they tend to get a bit picky on "the rules". Where you're going to have issues though is on the slide lightening cuts. That's a big no no for production type pistols. That automatically will get you bumped to either standard or open regardless. If it's got an optic on it then you'll 100% get bumped to open.
I know a few guys that run tricked out Glocks and they all are in standard division.
You'll also get the added bonus of being in minor which also automatically puts you at a disadvantage to all the guys running 2011s in major PF.

I suggest you just take the Black Badge, and if all you want to do is have fun and shoot, then come on out and enjoy the sport!
Click to expand...

I haven't shot an IPSC match in quite a while, mostly USPSA and Multigun matches the last few years. Have IPSC rules changed for equipment between L1/L2 and L3 matches, or are you just giving bad advice?
 
pmt said:
I haven't shot an IPSC match in quite a while, mostly USPSA and Multigun matches the last few years. Have IPSC rules changed for equipment between L1/L2 and L3 matches, or are you just giving bad advice?
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No, I'm not giving bad advice, I'm merely pointing out that at L1/L2 matches the equipment rules are less strictly enforced than at an L3, unless it's something blatantly in violation. For instance, extra texturing on a grip most likely would not get pointed out at an L1/L2, but definitely would at an L3.

However, pmt, in your case I'm sure an exception could be made to make sure every single detail of your equipment will be scrutinized down to the most minor of details. That way you can feel like you're not getting any "bad advice"
 
Aeroguy said:
No, I'm not giving bad advice, I'm merely pointing out that at L1/L2 matches the equipment rules are less strictly enforced than at an L3, unless it's something blatantly in violation. For instance, extra texturing on a grip most likely would not get pointed out at an L1/L2, but definitely would at an L3.

However, pmt, in your case I'm sure an exception could be made to make sure every single detail of your equipment will be scrutinized down to the most minor of details. That way you can feel like you're not getting any "bad advice"
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You're advising that the rules are enforced differently between L1,L2,L3 matches. When rules are ignored in L1 & L2 matches, people like yourself expect a free pass in L3 matches. You wanting to make an exception in my case just proves that you are full of bad advice. New shooters should not be told to do the wrong thing just because it's only a L1 or L2. Take the RO course and work a few matches before you speak.
 
pmt said:
You're advising that the rules are enforced differently between L1,L2,L3 matches. When rules are ignored in L1 & L2 matches, people like yourself expect a free pass in L3 matches. You wanting to make an exception in my case just proves that you are full of bad advice. New shooters should not be told to do the wrong thing just because it's only a L1 or L2. Take the RO course and work a few matches before you speak.
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Rules are enforced differently between L1,L2 and L3, L4. When is the last time you saw a chrono or equipment check at an L1 or L2?
 
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