Bought a pistol with a pinned mag? Check it!

pubb

pubb

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Bought an Israeli surplus Jericho 941F.

The mag that came with it started rattling, so I took it apart. It is pinned using a piece of threaded rod that is epoxied to the inside corner of the body, blocking the follower. The epoxy came loose and the rod rattled around in the mag body.

This is not a legal method of pinning a steel magazine. It is legal to epoxy a plastic magazine. Is the law stupid? Yes. Will you be held accountable for a stupid law? Maybe.

I wound up tack welding a steel pin to the body, so I am once again in compliance with the law, but check your purchases, people...
 
https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/FullText.html

If you scroll down to nearly Part 5, you'll see:

5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes

  • (a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;
  • (b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or
  • (c) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue.
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5B covers metal magazines, and allows for putting some sort of metallic block to the inside of the magazine, so riveting, welding, brazing or similar are allowed.

5C covers plastic magazines and allows for metal or plastic block using any of the above methods but also epoxy/glue.

OEM mags are steel. Confirmed with a magnet.
 
Bought a few Mecgar BHP mags from a dealer here, they were riveted on the side and heads filed down, but filed too far so there was literally no head and they just fell into the mag body first use.
I made a steel square spacer with a hole in the bottom, inserted through the bottom and riveted through the floorplate. Can't take them apart, but they are blocked gooder now.
 
pubb said:
https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/FullText.html

If you scroll down to nearly Part 5, you'll see:



5B covers metal magazines, and allows for putting some sort of metallic block to the inside of the magazine, so riveting, welding, brazing or similar are allowed.

5C covers plastic magazines and allows for metal or plastic block using any of the above methods but also epoxy/glue.

OEM mags are steel. Confirmed with a magnet.
Click to expand...

5) (b) refers to welding, brazing or any other similar method. There is no reference to riveting, which is in no way similar to welding or brazing. Use of pop rivets is one of these things that has been accepted and has been a standard practice. And one of these days, the SFSS could reverse the policy of pop rivets being accepted as a method of limiting magazine capacity.
 
tiriaq said:
5) (b) refers to welding, brazing or any other similar method. There is no reference to riveting, which is in no way similar to welding or brazing. Use of pop rivets is one of these things that has been accepted and has been a standard practice. And one of these days, the SFSS could reverse the policy of pop rivets being accepted as a method of limiting magazine capacity.
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There is a reference to riveting in the clause immediately preceding: (b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method;

You're affixing a steel or aluminum block to the inner surface using a mechanical method. The use of a pop rivet meets the first requirement and it is unclear whether it meets the second. I don't want to be the test case.
 
Light Infantry said:
The op is wrong. As soon as "similiar" was put into the law, it left it wide open.

Pubb, your interpretation is flat out wrong.
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You can make a very strong argument that the regulations, by differentiating between metallic and plastic magazines - and using different language for each - intended that epoxy and glue only be used on plastic magazines. You want to be the test case, you have my blessing.

Regardless of my interpretation, my point still stands: check your mags to make sure they are properly limited, however you choose to define "properly".
 
pubb said:
You can make a very strong argument that the regulations, by differentiating between metallic and plastic magazines - and using different language for each - intended that epoxy and glue only be used on plastic magazines. You want to be the test case, you have my blessing.

Regardless of my interpretation, my point still stands: check your mags to make sure they are properly limited, however you choose to define "properly".
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If a one is going to be a test case, you won't decide it. If they want to mess with you, they will. You can be over the top with your precautions, and they will still screw you over if they want.
 
: (b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be....
OR
....of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method
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It's that "OR" that is important, only has to meet one of those 2 methods, not both.
For the first one, pop river meets the condition, so would peening a rod into the follower like we see in SKS mags.
What wouldn't work is what we saw a decade ago from an unmentioned shop who epoxied a flimsy bent piece of tin into the steel magwell.
 
Light Infantry said:
If a one is going to be a test case, you won't decide it. If they want to mess with you, they will. You can be over the top with your precautions, and they will still screw you over if they want.
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True, and you can make it easy for them. I choose to not make it easy for them.
 
Hitzy said:
It's that "OR" that is important, only has to meet one of those 2 methods, not both.
For the first one, pop river meets the condition, so would peening a rod into the follower like we see in SKS mags.
What wouldn't work is what we saw a decade ago from an unmentioned shop who epoxied a flimsy bent piece of tin into the steel magwell.
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So what about attaching a small length of 3mm threaded rod using a dime-sized dab of what appears to be plumbers epoxy to the inside of a steel magazine?
 
pubb said:
So what about attaching a small length of 3mm threaded rod using a dime-sized dab of what appears to be plumbers epoxy to the inside of a steel magazine?
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I'm not a lawyer, so this advice is just based on common sense of the wording...
"the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be..."
Doesn't define what the attachment requirement is in the first part, just insertment and attachment. Could be a nut and bolt through the floorplate to meet that.
But...when you say attaching a steel rod to the interior of the mag body, that would fall under the 2nd part, and is more specific... welding/brazing, I would assume soldering would be "similar method", epoxy maybe not as the methods they describe involve heat to stick it in there.
"or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method"
 
My take is that the very first sentence says that

(5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes
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Means that the following isn't an exhaustive list of methods to pin a magazine. If you precisely followed (a), (b), or (c) methods of pinning they wouldn't have a leg to stand on to charge you, but if you pinned a magazine via a different method they would have to prove that your magazine was a prescribed device.

(4) A cartridge magazine described in subsection (1) that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that subsection if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is so capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.
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That clears it up. :rolleyes: Maybe just do away with mag restrictions and avoid all this hassle.
What is the point anyway. I've seen professionals change mags in under a second.
 
I know this is about pistols but my sks did the same thing, it had a steel rod pushed through the follower on the factory mag, I shot about 10 rounds through it before it fell out, luckily I’m a welder and could weld it back on properly
 
tiriaq said:
5) (b) refers to welding, brazing or any other similar method. There is no reference to riveting, which is in no way similar to welding or brazing. Use of pop rivets is one of these things that has been accepted and has been a standard practice. And one of these days, the SFSS could reverse the policy of pop rivets being accepted as a method of limiting magazine capacity.
Click to expand...

That was the original fix. I also recall mags with Bic pen tops inserted. Stupid solutions for a stupid rule. - dan
 
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