Milsurp picture request

TheIndifferent1

TheIndifferent1

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Hey all, I have a request. I am doing a presentation in a few weeks on the Soviet war economy and am looking for some pictures to use.

What I would really like to find are two or three receiver pictures of a pre-war Mosin Nagant and mid-war, to show the difference in finish. My Mosin will be an example of interwar production (1936). If anyone could provide these comparison pictures I'd very much appreciate it!

Also, a few questions.

Did they use the Nagant revolver throughout the war, or was it replaced by the Tokarev? And has anyone seen any war-time steel cased ammunition, or was that a post-war development?

I'm also going to show the rationalization of production by the soviets through weapon/cartridge type. Please tell me if I miss any.

Soviet:

7.62 Nagant
7.62X25
7.62x54R
12.7x108 (how widely was this used?)
14.5x114

British/American:

9mm
.38 S&W
.455 Webley
.45 ACP
303 British
.30-06
.50BMG
.55 Boys


Am I missing any other infantry rounds?
 
gyates93 said:
.30 carbine for the American M1 Carbine?
Click to expand...


:redface:

Well spotted!

If anyone is REALLY bored I could also use a picture of all the Soviet ammunition lined up together, and one of the Brit/American :D My class seems to be more interested in pictures than numbers - you'd be surprised how hard it is to keep 15 grad students on track.
 
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British: 7.92mm (Besa); .50 Vickers.

By standardizing on 7.62mm, Soviets were able to utilize barrel making machinery for pistols, smgs, rifles, lmgs, mmgs.
 
tiriaq said:
British: 7.92mm (Besa); .50 Vickers.

By standardizing on 7.62mm, Soviets were able to utilize barrel making machinery for pistols, smgs, rifles, lmgs, mmgs.
Click to expand...

What was the 7.92 Besa used in?
Totally forgot the .50 Vickers :redface:

Yep, gotta give the Russians credit for smart thinking :) Issues of various standards of supply on the Allied side may have a thesis hiding in there for me... I mean it's nothing new, look at the Ross problems with British made ammo in WWI.
 
The Besa tank gun used 7.92x57 ammunition. Standard until eventually displaced by Browning guns.
 
Something like this?

1942 is about as "mid-war" as you're going to get ;)

The bore slugs out to .3125', when it's supposed to be .310... the Russkies must have been in a hurry. It still shoots under 3 inches with surplus ammo, good enough for "minute of man" accuracy. Though I feel it will do better with some custom hand-loads.

MN1.JPG


MN2.JPG


MN3.JPG
 
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If you need better quality, I can take some pics in my spare time tomorrow when there's some natural light to be had.
 
It is my understanding that the really rough receiver finish on these MNs is because the Soviets went to a broaching system for receiver contouring. And they weren't concerned about appearances. Note though that the barrel surface is very presentable in comparison with the receiver.
 
tiriaq said:
It is my understanding that the really rough receiver finish on these MNs is because the Soviets went to a broaching system for receiver contouring. And they weren't concerned about appearances. Note though that the barrel surface is very presentable in comparison with the receiver.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that too, although I couldn't tell you what broaching is :p :D I'm going to use it as a visual aide to show how the Soviets were trying to pump them out as fast as possible, and skipping the steps that were purely aesthetic. :)
 
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Originally Posted by Tyler:
The bore slugs out to .3125', when it's supposed to be .310... the Russkies must have been in a hurry. It still shoots under 3 inches with surplus ammo, good enough for "minute of man" accuracy. Though I feel it will do better with some custom hand-loads.
Click to expand...

I know that the 7N1 load has a hollowbase projectile to account for the variances in bore diameter due to manufacture or wear. I believe that even the regular ball loads did/do as well but I cant find a reference.
 
Yes, I have some Korean War-vintage Soviet-mfd ammo, and pulled a few slugs. They are a true Minie type, believe it or not, just spitzer type, full-jacketed and 149 grains...... but still a Minie!

Imperial Russia standardized on this loading in, I believe, 1908. I don't know if it is still in production or not.

For shooting the Moisin-Nagant rifle, specimens from 1906 through 1943, we are using standard Hornady 150-grain .303 bullets and getting splendid results. The Americans don't think a lot of this round, but they do insist on loading it with a .308 bullet. Wonder what they would say if I accused the Springfield of being inaccurate, and then they found that I was using .300" diameter Carcano slugs in the thing?????

Broaching is a metalworking process in which sharpened tools called broaches are dragged through or alongside a piece of metal, removing material in a strip. Think of cut rifling: that's broaching. You can also use it on the outside of things, but you have to be able to bolt the workpiece down AND keep the broach aligned. It is very fast for removing material, which likely would be why it was used. The boltway in a Mauser C96 is broached, also, as are many keyways.
 
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