What is the best original Mauser, variant or copy?

[#4mk1(T)]

Ok so this might be a bit of an odd question coming from an Enfield collector but:
What do you think is the best as issued Mauser, be it an original design, a variant or a copy?
As much as I like my Lee Enfields it’s impossible to ignore the impact the Mauser design has had on both military and civilian firearms design. Even a few of the design improvements that went into the Enfield were in response to Mauser innovations and the P14/M17 were out and out copies of the basic Mauser design. Many other military rifles designed and built around the turn of the century owed much to the Mauser design such as the US M1903. For a short time the US government were even forced to pay Mauser royalties for paten infringements relating to the M1903. When I first started considered posting this question I thought I’d put it up as pole but because of the almost endless variations and my lack of familiarity with Mausers I’ll just ask that you post your top 3 picks and a short explanation of why you think it rates as one of the top 3.
Remember though the question relates only to “as issued” rifles so “the 98 is best because you can re-barrel it to any sporting caliber on earth” isn’t a suitable answer. Beyond that there is no wrong answer.
Now for the record my 3 would be:
1) M1903-A3 Springfield Because of the 30-06 caliber, aperture back sights and I like the bolt stop/magazine cut-off better than the original Mauser design. Also with the Springfield design you can re-#### the rifle without opening the bolt. Handy if you experience a misfire.
2) Swedish M38. Mostly because of the caliber but the sights used on these rifles are one of the few tangent types I like using. Build quality as well as fit and finish are exceptional. As an Enfield user the ####-on-close is much more familiar.
3) This one I’m torn on. Some days I like the US M1917 mostly because of the sights and caliber but the bolt throw is a tad long. Other days I like a few of the South American models in 7X57mm again because of the caliber.
The down side to these is the stock design. With the exception of the type “C” pistol grip used on some 03’s most of these are of the straight design. Not all that great for long shooting strings.
Now it’s your turn. Flame away if you don’t agree with me. I can take it. What would be your 3?

 

[Timberlord]

From one Enfield nut to another ,
I think your choices a sound , but I'd switch them around abit.

(1) Swede M38 or the M96 if overall length isn't a issue .
Both my M96's are beautiflly fit and boastfully accurate even tho they're 100yr+ old.
Near flawless rifles and ammo can be found at decent prices too!
The 6.5x55 round is great . Mild recoil , yet fast and hits with a mighty punch.
As a hunter , anything from coyote to Whitetail bucks don't stand a chance with this round and rifle.
An M38 is definately on my want list.

(2) Nazi 98K with it's notorious history will fill the blank in any collection.
My '44 BYF is a fine rifle in fit and finish . Although a total mismatch ( even the bolt has 3 different serial numbers ) it preforms without flaws and consistant at the range .
( mind you , my Enfields will outshoot this particular 98K ).
I got lucky with this purchase , about half the price of beater RC rifles. The seller had no idea what it was and a frogged bayo / sling came with it.
The big ol' 8mm slug , hits the target like Thor's hammer , I have no probs using this rifle for deer hunting.

(3) M1903/A3 abounds with history and renowned accuracy.
The 30.06 has proven itself worthy in just about every aspect.
What stops me from purchasing one of these is the price ..too much for even a beater , but , I'll keep my eye open for one with the right price.

The M17 or P13 are just too...well... fugly , and in most cases , too pricey for my liking but many fellas will say different . Nice sights tho..

IMHO

 

[#4mk1(T)]

From one Enfield nut to another ,
I think your choices a sound , but I'd switch them around abit.

(1) Swede M38 or the M96 if overall length isn't a issue .
(2) Nazi 98K with it's notorious history will fill the blank in any collection.
(3) M1903/A3 abounds with history and renowned accuracy.
The M17 or P13 are just too...well... fugly , and in most cases , too pricey for my liking but many fellas will say different . Nice sights tho..
IMHO

Interesting.
I’ve never been much of an 8mm fan and have never been able to get a Mauser chambered in the caliber to out shoot my Enfields consistently. I will say that I’ve NEVER loaded for the caliber so this would be a factor. I’ve always found the 30-06 to be a flatter shooting round in as issued form.
As for the P14/M17 being fugly I can’t argue that one. In addition they were long. Too long even when compared with rifles of the day.

 

[Claven2]

Hmm, ok, I'll play. My top 3 picks in order are:

1) M1908 Brazilian or M1909 Argentine Mauser. You pick. These are the pinnacle of the long Mauser Gewehr 98 pattern done when commercial grade finishes were applied to military arms and all guns were hand-fitted by craftsmen. A sight to behold.

2) Circa 1920's Oberndorf sporter M98. If you've ever seen one, you would know why.

3) Circa 1935/1936 Mauser Standard Modell (or Karabiner fur Deutches Reichs Post). Beautifully executed Mauser 98, the epitomy of the Karabiner-length Mauser. Again, made to commercial finish standards.

Yes, I am purposefully ommitting the earlier Mauser actions (71, 71/84, 91, 93, 95, 96, etc.) and the copies (P14, M1917, M1903, Arisaka, etc.).

The M98 was the pinnacle of the design. Period. The most superior gas handling, safety lug, etc. The best.

The M1903 is more a copy of the M93 than it is the M98. It also has less ideal gas handling and an unsupported cartridge base borrowed from the Krag barrel. Flag-waving aside, it improved nothing over the M93 (except superb target sights), let alone the M98.

 

[Claven2]

Interesting.
I’ve never been much of an 8mm fan and have never been able to get a Mauser chambered in the caliber to out shoot my Enfields consistently. I will say that I’ve NEVER loaded for the caliber so this would be a factor. I’ve always found the 30-06 to be a flatter shooting round in as issued form.
As for the P14/M17 being fugly I can’t argue that one. In addition they were long. Too long even when compared with rifles of the day.

Comemrcial 8mm is overly aneamic and crappy. The military stuff we've gotten in Canada has been third-world garbage.

Proper military 8mm or good handloads is the equal of anything ever made for the Enfield, and in some cases, better as the 8mm has better energy numbers and cross-sectional density.

 

[Lee Enfield]

snip....

As for the P14/M17 being fugly I can’t argue that one. In addition they were long. Too long even when compared with rifles of the day.

Obviously you aren't fully grown yet.

I've really started to like the P14/M17 as they point quite well for me.

The only problem I have is that the butt stocks are a little short...

 

[44Bore]

ok, I'll play.

1. 1908 or 1909 mausers--smooth, accurate and well balanced.

2. Pre WW II (M-1934) FN mausers smooth accurate and well balanced.

3. Swedish Mausers--later production. well made and accurate.

Original military mausers are the classiest of the bunch--but if it came to carrying one in combat I would prefer a Lee Enfield No. 4.

44Bore

 

[kevwat]

Original military mausers are the classiest of the bunch--but if it came to carrying one in combat I would prefer a Lee Enfield No. 4.


X2

 

[Calum]

IMHO, a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser with a Hellqvist peep sight.

 

[polaris]

Claven2 wrote
M1908 Brazilian or M1909 Argentine Mauser. You pick. These are the pinnacle of the long Mauser Gewehr 98 pattern done when commercial grade finishes were applied to military arms and all guns were hand-fitted by craftsmen. A sight to behold.

Claven you are spot on...
this two contract mausers are one of the most beautiful and accurate military guns ever build...
however there are more to consider like the Iranian model of 1929...

 

[Claven2]

Why the m96 is NOT deserving of "top dog" consideration:

1) The cocking piece flange has no spring-catch and does NOT have a full-sized gas deflection shield.
2) Being a small-ring mauser, it does not have the strength of the M98.
3) There is no safety lug in the event of catastrophic bolt shear, you "lose your head".
4) No stock recoil lug.
5) Originals have poor bolt gas handling, though some are modified with gas holes drilled in like on a M98.
6) #### on closing with a long throw = slower bolt that either the M98 or Enfield.

Otherwise, it's a good gun, but no Mauser 98.

 

[Riflechair]

Persian Mauser Model 98/29 in 8X57
A Beautiful piece of art
Sames goes for the 1908 & 1935 Brazilian (7X57) or 1909 (7.65) Argentine which are all Prewar German Mausers of exquisite quality. But I prefer the large ring Persian (Czech manufacture). Look at the length of the barrel!!!!!

Manufactured by Brno Arms Factory, Czechoslovakia in the 30's under Persian contract. This rifle was selected as the standard weapon of the Persian Army and was acclaimed for its accuracy. It was also favored by the Persian Palace Guards for ceremonial activities.

A Pahlavi crown, lion and sun crest appears near the feeding ring, as an inscription in Persian (in Nasta'liq script) on the side of its magazine giving the model and the factory name, which was in Brno. From then on the name Brno was used by Iranians to refer to this rifle.

Lion and Sun crest of a Persian Mauser

 

[polaris]

very nice gun Riflechair...
is it yours?...
a few years back I missed one for sale...loked like the one on your picture, was mint with matching Bayonet.
Today I would trade my excellent condition Garand for one of them...

 

[bushwhacker]

(1) 1917
(2) Springfield
(3) 98
Don't like the open sights half way up the barrel on the 98. The safety is useless if you mount a scope. OK, I know you said as issued, I have only shot one 98, and it wouldn't group worth a hoot. I know that is not a fair evaluation. A bit leery of the 2Pc. firing pin on the Springfield, as well as early poor heat treated receivers. Yeah, I know some of the 1917's had issues in that regard too. I had a 1914, and it was an excellent shooter, but I wouldn't choose it because of the cartridge.

 

[Riflechair]

very nice gun Riflechair...
is it yours?...

Mine? No unfortunately not. This is however my dream Mauser. I've never seen one for sale hereon CGN or anywhere else in Canada. I've seen lots of Argies and Brazilians but not Persians.

BUSHWACKER: Don't like the open sights half way up the barrel on the 98. The safety is useless if you mount a scope. OK, I know you said as issued, I have only shot one 98, and it wouldn't group worth a hoot.

Bushwacker not all mausers are created equal. If any rifle had a wide assortment of variants and calibres it is the 98 mauser. There is a wide assortment of issued sight options from peep sights to rasor sharp front blades to the cheap style pyramid front blades. Your statement is not exactly fair to the father of all modern sporting and hunting rifles.

 

[Riflechair]

Although inherently accurate engineering I agree with Claven. I also find that the cocking piece stroke on these rifles is far too long. This increases the time required for the striker (having since pulled the trigger) to hit the primer which incurs error to what otherwise may be perfect marksmanship techniques. If it were not to for the fact that the 6.5 Swede is such an inherenty accurate round I do not think these rifles would otherwise be so popular. Having said that I can't think of any other flaws with this design. I dont mind #### on closing because I'm an enfield fan. Additionally from a battle rifle perspective it is much easier to close a bolt layden with mud than it is for a #### on open to frankly lift open. Its merely the length of the stroke that is required to #### the rifle. The Swedes otherwise paid attention to detail.

My 2 Cents.

Why the m96 is NOT deserving of "top dog" consideration:

1) The cocking piece flange has no spring-catch and does NOT have a full-sized gas deflection shield.
2) Being a small-ring mauser, it does not have the strength of the M98.
3) There is no safety lug in the event of catastrophic bolt shear, you "lose your head".
4) No stock recoil lug.
5) Originals have poor bolt gas handling, though some are modified with gas holes drilled in like on a M98.
6) #### on closing with a long throw = slower bolt that either the M98 or Enfield.

Otherwise, it's a good gun, but no Mauser 98.

 

[WW2GURU]

Well my vote is for the 1935 Brazilian Mauser. I might be bias since i just bought one 3 weeks ago, but they are damn nice.

 

[longbranch*]

Favorite Mauser?

Obviously I'm a big Enfield fan, but Mauser's are a favorite also, sooo...
1)Damn this is hard, ok, the 1908,'09 and 1935's are a particuliar favorite. The craftsmanship is amazing, especially like those with "white" receivers. Of all the above I have, I'll go with my my 1909 Peruvian 7.65X53 with that cool Lange rear sight.

2) Pre/early war Oberndorf K98's. A 41 Portuguese is hard to beat. The 8m/m is a fine cartridge (handloads of course).

3) My P-14 Winchester. Little cumbersome, but great for the range and very accurate.
P.S.(Just had a route canal performed prior to starting this, so I can deny all this due to the Tylenol 3's I'm on. Feck I hurt!!!)
Cheers
Geoff in Victoria

 

[Unsub]

1 I was going to go with the Argentine but Riflechair convinced me that the Persian was a betterchoice.

2 Israeli .308 converted K98 ,preferably with both swastika and star of David still intact. A modern inexpensive round and incredible history.

3 Post war east german mauser. It was the guys here that clued me into these well made sleepers.


8mm's are a good round but commercial loads from the US particularly are weak enough so that all the mausers can handle them because they don't trust the average consumer to check.

 

[Claven2]

The Persian and South American guns are about equally well made, but I prefer the South American varieties because they were made at DWM and Oberndorf, where it all started, while the Persians are generally BRNO made Czech guns under license from Mauser.