LE Virgin

Why bother changing the front sight? Chances are the previous owner went to a higher site to allow for 100 y shooting. The vernier sight can be used to "dial in" any specific load for elevation. BTW - Your assumption that the 150 grain load will shoot flatter and higher is questionable. Between barrel harmonics and recoil reaction, you may find the 174 grain load will shoot higher at 100 yards. Actually, any variation in load parameters for a given bullet weight has the potential to change POI. Changing or adjusting the front sight to suit can lead to excessive tail chasing.
Oh - to shoot properly, LE's have a very specific bedding regimen. If your bedding is off, you will likely get sub-optimal range results. More research needed here, Grasshopper.
 
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You are using 150 grs and they do shoot flatter than a heavier bullet but a heavier bullet has more recoil and stays in the barrel slightly longer. More recoil pushes your muzzle up farther. This is why normally heavier bullets shoot higher. In my 38-55 it is noticeable when switching from 255gr up 335 gr. Center hold for the 255gr and six o’clock hold for the 335 gr.
Sounds like your rifle is on target with a six o’clock hold. To be dead on you would need to go to a higher front site to work with your battle site. I reload and shoot mostly cast lead through my LE’s so have never needed to change a front site. I use the flip up aperture and adjust it to get me on target. The only time I have changed the front site was if one was missing when I bought it.
 
It'll be a while before I can make up some 174gr rounds. We just moved and my reloading room is currently a pile of boxes shoved into a corner. I have about 25 rounds of Hornady 150gr to play with in the meantime.

I'm not fussing about the oddly low shooting vernier sight. Just trying to understand it.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
More front sight nonsense. A bit more googling and I've come up with a couple of lists showing various front sizes and types.

My front sight is marked F .045 which near as I can figure is 1.045" over the bore. As my rifle seems to shoot pretty low, it would seem I may need a shorter front sight and I see a list showing four sight sizes shorter than the one I have.

The big question being, where the hell does one source a selection of front sights for an 88 y/o military rifle?
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First - a 150 running at 2200 is a "light load". Mark VII ball is a 174 grain bullet at roughly 2400. When you switch from commercial loads to the real thing, you can really feel the difference.

Second - The N04 Mk2 that I have actually has a tight chamber - these were post war guns and most of the guns reverted to proper specs after the war, I've handled many Mk2's, including fresh out of the wrap, and haven't seen a sloppy oversized chamber yet. I'm wondering if there's crap in there, if you can gently polish the chamber, I would.

Third - on the LE sights were zero'd to each soldier's eye, Riflechair has an excellent video on Youtube about zeroing the No4 rifle.
 
enefgee said:
First - a 150 running at 2200 is a "light load". Mark VII ball is a 174 grain bullet at roughly 2400. When you switch from commercial loads to the real thing, you can really feel the difference.

Second - The N04 Mk2 that I have actually has a tight chamber - these were post war guns and most of the guns reverted to proper specs after the war, I've handled many Mk2's, including fresh out of the wrap, and haven't seen a sloppy oversized chamber yet. I'm wondering if there's crap in there, if you can gently polish the chamber, I would.

Third - on the LE sights were zero'd to each soldier's eye, Riflechair has an excellent video on Youtube about zeroing the No4 rifle.
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First - not sure where the 2200fps number came from. I just checked the box and it lists muzzle velocity of 2687fps so not exactly a "light" load. Within 300yds this ammo is gonna shoot flatter than the MIL Std.

Second - How do you determine a "sloppy or oversized" chamber? I never said I think my chamber is sloppy or oversized. Only said the brass comes out "frosted" or dull as if the chamber was not properly polished.

Third - I just watched Riflechair video. Also googled the sighting procedure so I have the exact dimensions etc I need to be looking for. As I don't have any 174gr ammo and my reloading bench is currently piled in the corner of our new basement after we moved house. So no reloading for a bit yet. Also need to get hold of a variety of shorter front sights.
 
Your saying your rifle shoots high. You don’t need a lower front site. You need a higher front site. A shorter front site will make your gun shoot even higher.
If your cases have frost or cloudy look that sounds normal for full power loads.Factory Federal I noticed was doing it the most. Definitely does it with full power reloads.
 
Snider shooter said:
Your saying your rifle shoots high. You don’t need a lower front site. You need a higher front site. A shorter front site will make your gun shoot even higher.

If your cases have frost or cloudy look that sounds normal for full power loads.Factory Federal I noticed was doing it the most. Definitely does it with full power reloads.
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Mmmmmmmm, NO. I said it shoots low. WAY low with the adjustable range sight. Like prob 18" low at 100 yds, with ammo that should shoot flatter than what the sight is designed for.

However I now know that different height sights are available and the one in the rifle is actually on the tall side. It is a .045 sight. So I should have loads of room to adjust back to a reasonable zero once I figure out a load that works well with the rifle.

Ahh, excellent news re the cloudy looking cases. Thx.
 
Your saying your battle site is shooting 6” high which would mean you need a higher front site. Your also saying when you flip up your rear site it is shooting low. Your ammunition doesn’t copy the type of ammunition that the sites where originally regulated. If you swap out for a lower front your battle site is going to shoot way higher. Would it be closer to the yardage marks on your rear site probably but that’s going to take a lot of swapping sites out and shooting to figure it out. Likely the rear will still be off. Myself I would just make use of the rear site and mark it down in a book. It’s what I do when I change loads. I have one site with a scratch mark on it for my cast load, just over 450 to hit on at 100m
 
OK, so the battle sight shoots high at 100 yds but the long range sight shoots way low. Same ammo, same front sight. This confuses me.

To get the adjustable rear sight to shoot to the same POI as the battle sight, I had to crank it up to about 450yds setting. That seems fairly weird to me.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
OK, so the battle sight shoots high at 100 yds but the long range sight shoots way low. Same ammo, same front sight. This confuses me.

To get the adjustable rear sight to shoot to the same POI as the battle sight, I had to crank it up to about 450yds setting. That seems fairly weird to me.
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That seems fairly normal to me. The battle sight was originally intended for 300 y or 600 y zero, cant remember which. The vernier offers more rangeability, both for shorter distances and longer distances. Thats why the good folks on this board are suggesting using the vernier to dial in elevation for different loads, rather than diddling with the front sight. Still confused?
 
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I Dont Care About You said:
First - not sure where the 2200fps number came from. I just checked the box and it lists muzzle velocity of 2687fps so not exactly a "light" load. Within 300yds this ammo is gonna shoot flatter than the MIL Std.

Second - How do you determine a "sloppy or oversized" chamber? I never said I think my chamber is sloppy or oversized. Only said the brass comes out "frosted" or dull as if the chamber was not properly polished.

Third - I just watched Riflechair video. Also googled the sighting procedure so I have the exact dimensions etc I need to be looking for. As I don't have any 174gr ammo and my reloading bench is currently piled in the corner of our new basement after we moved house. So no reloading for a bit yet. Also need to get hold of a variety of shorter front sights.
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Dude - All military Lee Enfields have oversize chambers, some more than others. Compare one of your fired cases to a piece of virgin brass - look at the shoulder. Why in hell, do you ask? Well, the engineers that designed the rifle did that on purpose to accommodate poor wartime ammo manufacturing tolerances, and the ability to function with crud in the chamber. This proved to be a good idea, given the conditions of trench warfare.
Reloading requires some finesse, as a result.
 
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Part of the problem with oversized chambers is when you have multiple 303’s, non are the same. They where made at multiple armouries all over the world. No one made them exactly the same. The rear locking of the bolt contributes to case stretching. Full power loads are extremely hard on cases with case life be short usually two or three reloads. All the military was worried about when they designed the LE’s was that they fired their military rounds once. They never gave a thought to anyone reloading. Fired cases from one rifle normally won’t fit in any other rifle. Reloading for LE’s can be a bit of a learning curve. Most people neck size only, trying to extend case life.
I know the rear site not being on bothers you but most of us work up a load adjusting the site and leaving them set. My site adjustments are written down in a book so fairly easy to adjust for it I decide to shoot at different distances or change my load.
 
cosmic said:
That seems fairly normal to me. The battle sight was originally intended for 300 y or 600 y zero, cant remember which. The vernier offers more rangeability, both for shorter distances and longer distances. Thats why the good folks on this board are suggesting using the vernier to dial in elevation for different loads, rather than diddling with the front sight. Still confused?
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Having to dial the sight up to 450yd setting to get rounds on target at 100yd doesn't seem anywhere close to right. If the battle sight was set for 300 yds, then the vernier sight should produce a similar POI when set to 300yds. That would make sense.
 
Your not shooting military ammunition that the sites are regulated for so the sites shouldn’t be in line with your ammunition. Another option is a peep site such as the Parker Hale 5C which is meant for the #4. Direct fit to the screw on left side and holes for your rear site. Once the site is zeroed I set the scales to zero so if I decide to change it it is easy to adjust back to my regular settings.
 
AB1D8B8E-5CD2-4F8F-A78A-450EAB7BED37.jpeg
Parker Hale 5C on a#4 Fazakerly which I have rebuilt. The one in back has a Redfield adjustable aperture welded to regular site with the center section of the old peep removed.
 

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I Dont Care About You said:
Having to dial the sight up to 450yd setting to get rounds on target at 100yd doesn't seem anywhere close to right. If the battle sight was set for 300 yds, then the vernier sight should produce a similar POI when set to 300yds. That would make sense.
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Not to be pedantic, the front sight was likely changed by the previous owner to one higher than the original. This throws out the calibration of the rear sights, but allows the rifle to shoot lower for a given sight setting. This is very common, and also done on other milsurp rifles such as Swedish mausers. The reason for this has been explained previously.
So, assume the battle sight was designed to be a 600 y zero. With the vernier displaying a 100 y zero at its 450 y setting, one would expect the battle sight to shoot high at 100 y - which is what you have.
 
Snider shooter said:
Your not shooting military ammunition that the sites are regulated for so the sites shouldn’t be in line with your ammunition. Another option is a peep site such as the Parker Hale 5C which is meant for the #4. Direct fit to the screw on left side and holes for your rear site. Once the site is zeroed I set the scales to zero so if I decide to change it it is easy to adjust back to my regular settings.
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My ultimate plan for this rifle is to had a No32 scope mounted to it to make it a faux (T). So I'm not gonna fuss too much over the irons.
 
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