thinking out loud ...

T

the radium king

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so, what if somebody ...

- got a firearms manufacturer's licence

- purchased raw stock from all our recently insulted 180 manufacturers

- remanufactured the lowers to only accept 5-round magazines for hunting rifles ie howa mini 1500 in 223

- remanufactured the uppers for single feed (bolt, barrel extension)

- get an frt as firearm would no longer (a) be a 180, or (b) able to accept magazines over 5rds.

- keep the party going!

and here is where all the choads (the spy term is 'useful idiots') post "don't bother, the libs will just ban it too". there, i did it for you so you don't have to ...
 
If it's still stamped with any markings that tie it back to being a 180 rifle, it'll fall under the "banned by name". Probably easier to start a new design from scratch. Or.... fight like hell and try to change this crap before it becomes law
 
yeah, not sure what the raw uppers/lowers look like prior to finish machining, etc. (ie, if it would have the 180 marking on it yet) and if modified for different type of mag and feed uncertain if it would still fall under the 180 defn hence the 'remanufacturing' approach to distance it from the 180 origins. hard to say, as they are banning guns by name that don't meet their own criteria.

as a thought exercise it doesn't seem that much work - clearance/braze in spacers to fit the new mag, come up with a mag catch of some sort, machine the barrel extension, probably a new bolt required. or just modify the cad files as required and start from scratch with any raw stock still in inventory.

in the interim write your ndp member of parliament, break up the cabal, kill the bill, force an election.
 
You want to buy all the aluminum extrusions from manufacturers and mill and modify them in Canada so they can be fixed magazine rifles?

If it was this easy to do. Don't you think manufacturers would keep their stock and do it themselves?

I actually love this idea. It'll give you an idea of exactly what it costs to manufacture a product like this in Canada and show you why $1300 Canadian made guns are what they are. With all the complaints everyone has about the various 180 rifles either being garbage and unrefined or too expensive it would be nice to be able to show people that manufacturing in this country just ain't cheap and manufacturing guns just ain't that easy.
 
not fixed magazine, but rather detachable 5rd single-feed bolt-action magazine.

the reason it's not been done is because nobody has had to. i'm sure that, if they thought of it, current manufactures can/could/are doing it. i'm just chucking out ideas. i used the remanufacturing concept to create a firewall between the current 180 and the proposed product which would be a black hunting rifle - designed for hunting with the reduced rate of fire which comes from the single feed mechanism (my understanding is that double feed is designed to present rounds fast enough during full-auto operation).

wondering - if you put the mag in the magwell offset to one side could you still use the double feed bolt?
 
Why single-feed? Regular bolt-action hunting rifles use both fixed and detachable stagger-fed Magazines, so why not this "new" rifle? IMHO, all that needs to be done to overcome the ban as written is to make a lower which will not accept STANAG AR Magazines. Simply design a proprietary 5-round Magazine with vertical depressions to match identical protrusions in the Magazine Well of a redesigned Lower Receiver. Voila - you have created a "new" rifle which is no longer an AR180 as it wil not accept AR mags, nor does it accept any magazine over 5-rounds capacity so it does not fall under the "evergreen" definition of an "assault-type weapon".

A couple of tweaks to the Lower Receiver CAD File and production of a new Magazine with different Vertical depressions should be all that is required. Easy-Peasy....
 
"Why single-feed? Regular bolt-action hunting rifles use both fixed and detachable stagger-fed Magazines, so why not this "new" rifle? IMHO, all that needs to be done to overcome the ban as written is to make a lower which will not accept STANAG AR Magazines. Simply design a proprietary 5-round Magazine with vertical depressions to match identical protrusions in the Magazine Well of a redesigned Lower Receiver. Voila - you have created a "new" rifle which is no longer an AR180 as it wil not accept AR mags, nor does it accept any magazine over 5-rounds capacity so it does not fall under the "evergreen" definition of an "assault-type weapon".

A couple of tweaks to the Lower Receiver CAD File and production of a new Magazine with different Vertical depressions should be all that is required. Easy-Peasy...."


100%; that was my initial thinking as well. i just got to thinking about what folks might already have in 223 - howa, cz - and also about drawing a more defined line to 'non-military' origins hence the single feed thought. i mean, designing a new proprietary magazine would also meet that 'non-military' bit, but my understanding is that they say (and i paraphrase) - "find a good magazine and design a gun around it" - making the mag is the hard bit, so if already done in the hunting industry then just appropriate their work. then again, with 3d printers these days job is quite easier - folks printing tikka mags now, hey. so should be possible.
 
Complete waste of time.

It would be much easier to just start with a fresh design and a fresh block of aluminum.
 
history begs to differ. modern canadian firearms industry has shown it is pretty adept at modifying and adapting existing designs, but not so much at creating new designs. add market uncertainty and it's a lot less $ in to adapt something you have that create something new.

Dexter Morgan said:
Complete waste of time.

It would be much easier to just start with a fresh design and a fresh block of aluminum.
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It is always prudent to plan for contingencies in the event that things do not go our way. In military planning these are referred to as "branches and sequels" which flow from any initial start-state situation. He who fails to plan will fail to act in an optimal manner when the time for action arrives....
 
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lawn gnome said:
Jumping through hoops to please a loud minority who can not be pleased?
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well, fight the change but also be prepared for the change.

i look at it as escalation. which the firearms industry - given its military origins - is very good at. you make a gun. the other guy makes a bigger gun or develops measures to counter your gun. so you make a bigger or better gun.

ditto our current climate. you make a gun, it sits on the market for a few years until the laws get rewritten to ban it. then you make a different gun. any gun you have is for a finite time. like the hundreds and thousands of 180s in canada now. if the canadian industry hadn't rushed out the 180 clones than there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of 180s out in the wild right now. if nobody had purchased because why bother it'll be banned then there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of 180s in canada right now. and all those 180s out there change the metric - drastically increase the cost of a buyback program which forces the liberals to move to confiscation which IS changing the dialog out there. this is all regardless of whether you or the provinces choose to comply or not.

regardless, this thread is about retooling the canadian 180 platform to comply with the (like it or not) pending laws. don't like these laws? there are lots of other threads about that. think it is giving up? try your arguments in the renegade and bison threads which have been around for over two years.

if done properly and with small work you could create (at least temporarily) a semi-automatic 5rd magazine-fed hunting rifle that complied with the pending laws, and potentially helped the industry as well.
 
180 and variants are prohib by name in the new amendment…So essentially a net new semi auto platform that can only take proprietary 5 round mags that must be limited to Canada and can never be marketed anywhere else where larger magazines are the norm.

Perhaps it could be done on a small scale but I expect the R&D costs would be prohibitive…

Canada is a ridiculously small market for firearms…

Better we all just stick up our middle fingers and continue to use the rifles we have now, while we fight this BS.
 
Innavedaw said:
180 and variants are prohib by name in the new amendment…So essentially a net new semi auto platform that can only take proprietary 5 round mags that must be limited to Canada and can never be marketed anywhere else where larger magazines are the norm.

Perhaps it could be done on a small scale but I expect the R&D costs would be prohibitive…

Canada is a ridiculously small market for firearms…

Better we all just stick up our middle fingers and continue to use the rifles we have now, while we fight this BS.
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This.
 
i think when wolverine brought out the wk180 there was no intent to sell to a broader market outside canada (i could be wrong here as who knows the mind of a wolverine). as the platform evolved some of the later more refined iterations - crusader, sterling, bcl - did start looking south. but even south of the border states such as new york and cali (BIG markets) struggle with restrictive magazine laws that would benefit from such a development (and nz, others?).

re cost of development - fit the mag to the lower, redo the bolt and barrel extension if needed. enough change such that it is no longer a 180. gunsmith stuff and some cad work. not putting a man on the moon, and less work that the initial platform cloning/evolving that's been done by the canadian industry to-date. regardless, i think this is where the constructive dialog is - how could it be made to work from a technical perspective, and leave the legal debate to the other subforums.

Innavedaw said:
180 and variants are prohib by name in the new amendment…So essentially a net new semi auto platform that can only take proprietary 5 round mags that must be limited to Canada and can never be marketed anywhere else where larger magazines are the norm.

Perhaps it could be done on a small scale but I expect the R&D costs would be prohibitive…

Canada is a ridiculously small market for firearms…

Better we all just stick up our middle fingers and continue to use the rifles we have now, while we fight this BS.
Click to expand...
 
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