But I kind of understand the branding. Sentries, sentinels and templar etc. Pretty sure they were all guardians/patrols of some type during medievil times.
Crusader Arms Templar quality control issues and response
- Thread starter JayCorbett
- Start date
But I kind of understand the branding. Sentries, sentinels and templar etc. Pretty sure they were all guardians/patrols of some type during medievil times.
Good eye and thanks for that.
I put a mini review in the main Templar thread for anyone who is interested. No live-fire, just a strip and assemble, trigger-pull and discussion of the rifle's pros and cons with various folks at the LGS.
I have one inbound for my own detailed analysis. If you would consider buying the WS-MCR, then consider this a greatly-refined and evolved WS-MCR with an AR15-style Lower Receiver, a Monolithic Upper Receiver (solid aluminum top Picatinny Rail), a thicker one-piece Piston, and a "Magpul ACR style" Buttstock. All wrapped up in a package with quality of machining and finishing that is on-par with the WS-MCR. A few external machining marks here and there, but nothing that will compromise function or performance. I expect the Medium-contour Barrel to produce 1.5 MOA with 69 gr Federal Gold Medal Match and 2 MOA with bulk 55 gr Aguilla M193 Ball ammo. Hits on target will tell the tale once I receive the rifle this coming week.
You are right to be hestitant with true, untested, first-generation rifles such as the BCL "Siberian" which is a new design rushed to market with the preorder funded by Beta Testers. Don't be that guy! In the case of the Templar however, it is really the WS-MCR "Gen 2", and in that sense it is a tried and tested system that has been further enhanced with vastly improved Ergonomics, Trigger (Trigger Tech Adjustable), Piston, and so forth. The AR-180B operating system is a well-known "done deal" at this point, and all that remains is to further refine it by beefing up the Piston (done), and similiar small upgrades. What I'm saying is that the Templar is a pretty safe bet as the "WS-MCR Gen 2"....
At its proffered MSRP of $2250 with the (might as well be mandatory) Trigger Tech upgrade, the Templar offers a solid build and performance that is presumably even better than that of the WS-MCR that preceded it. There's not much else at the $2K price-point these days to compete with the new Templar, and certainly nothing in terms of an established commercial product such as the Tavor X95 ($2750) or CZ Bren 2 ($3200). So the Templar finds itself in an advantagious position price and performance-wise. maing it a new platform certainly worth considering. Closer competition would be the Keltec RDB Bullpup equipped with an Aluminum Handguard ($1800), or the Sterling Arms International R18 Mk2 ($2700), although the latter is considerably nicer in terms of parts fit and surface finishing as the higher price would suggest. I predict that the Crustader/Spectre Templar will prove to be a solid, if uninspired AR180B derivative design, providing reasonable accuracy and reliable, rugged performance. Assuming there are no unanticipated parts fairlures in the "new" Charging Handle System employed on the Templar, it should be good to go as most of the rest of the operating system has been in successful production for several years now as the WS-MCR.
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Thanks for that.
Already have an MCR and X95. Was looking at a Bren 2 and then this caught my eye. Didn't want to purchase the Bren 2 with the backlog of restricted transfers from all the handgun sales just yet. Was hoping to let that mess clear up first.
I'll keep an close eye on the development of this rifle, but for now I think I'm still leaning towards the Bren 2.
If you want to get an NR Templar now and get an NR or R Bren 2 later, you can save some money by ordering it with a buffer tube instead of the clone ACR stock, and optionally get the milspec trigger for more savings, but getting the Triggertech from the factory is likely very worth in the premium there.
If all other considerations were equal (price, etc), then I would still take a CZ Bren 2 over the Templar every day of the week and twice on Sundays! A small-batch production based on an amateur design will never be able to compete with a professionally-designed firearm produced by a dedicated full-scale factory such as the Bren 2 MS. The Bren 2 MS has the advantage from the outset of being designed by a team of professional firearms designers and engineers as opposed to "one guy with a bright idea". It then enjoys the manufacturing excellence offered by an established, modern, integrated and purpose-built production facility as opposed to a variety of unconnected sub-contractors. It is entirely evident when one handles both firearms, which one was professionally designed and manufactured in a modern firearms producton facility. The Bren 2 is the better design, without question.
The above notwithstanding, the Templar will most liiely offer a lifetime of satisfactory service to those who purchase one. Just because the Bren 2 is the superior design, does not mean that the Templar should be completely discounted. Indeed, starting with the very reasonable price-point, there is an awful lot to like about the Templar rifle. Being an evolved form of the WS-MCR, the Templar certainly ought to be reliable. The move to a medium-contour Barrel should provide increased accuracy over the WS-MCR, while the longer Medium-length gas system results in a softer operating impulse. All things considered, while the Templar may not be the equal of the Bren 2, it is nonetheless a durable, reliable and reasonably accurate modern sporting rifle at a very attractive price. As such, it deserves to stand on its own within the (otherwise) dwindling Canadan firearms market.
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Mine arrived - you can see the quality of the finish and underlying machining for yourself in the photos. The Lower Receiver has the worst surface preparation, however in defence of Spectre Ltd, the rifle looks far better in person than it does in the photos, which tend to accentuate the minor discrepancies. Live-fire testing will tell the tale of reliability and accuracy. Assuming those are acceptable, the Templar will earn a positive recommendation (with caveats) from me. Watch and shoot!
I just received mine, feels and look great. The overall finish is OK, anyway it's gonna get dirty and scratched.
I have an A2 grip, no magpull.
The bolt automatically close when I remove the mag. (Not pressing the bolt release)
I tested a G2 and G3 PMAG, same thing. Any owners had this issue ?
I have an A2 grip, no magpull.
The bolt automatically close when I remove the mag. (Not pressing the bolt release)
I tested a G2 and G3 PMAG, same thing. Any owners had this issue ?
It sounds to me as though there is an issue with your Bolt Hold Open Lever or the associated parts. The Bolt should NOT slam forward when you remove an empty magazine. It should stay to the rear so that you can maually close the bolt on your next magazine using the Thumb-activated Bolt Closure Lever.
There is a way to work around the problem if you engage the Charging Handle up in to the manual "HK Slap" bolt-closure position while you still have an empty mag in the rifle. The Bolt Carrier will catch on the Charging Handle when it tries to slam forward as you remove the mag. The Bolt Carrier will stay to the rear until you insert a fresh mag and rotate the Charging Handle downwards with an "HK Slap". At that point the Bolt and Carrier will slam forwards, placing a live round in the chamber.,,
Depending on your level of comfort and familiarity with the Templar you may have to return your rifle to the factory for servicing. If, on the other hand you are comfortable swapping out parts, then perhaps Crusader Arms will ship you a new Bolt Hold-Open Lever for self-installation to see if that resolves the problem in the easiest manner possible. You should discuss your courses of action with Crusader Arms. I find that their Website contact form typically gets an e-mail response within 34 hours.
What’s the weight of this rifle, looks like a tank. I too was about to buy this rifle today after emailing the company.
Someone here wrote “I would stick with the wk180 Gen 2 because they have aftermarket parts and are decently reliable “ something like that. I agree with him.
I want a Templar but after reading this whole thread I think I’ll buy something else instead. I appreciate Steve jumping in and saying they stand behind their products with a lifetime warranty.
If you’re having to send the firearm back due to quality control, I feel they’re being rushed out the door with little consideration to the product they’re producing. Lots of new firearms have a couple issues at the beginning and reputable companies will always make it right. That seems to be the case here but it’s a risky purchase with a ban looming. Your lifetime warranty would become irrelevant if it came into effect today. How would I send the firearm back for replacement when it becomes prohibited.
Someone here wrote “I would stick with the wk180 Gen 2 because they have aftermarket parts and are decently reliable “ something like that. I agree with him.
I want a Templar but after reading this whole thread I think I’ll buy something else instead. I appreciate Steve jumping in and saying they stand behind their products with a lifetime warranty.
If you’re having to send the firearm back due to quality control, I feel they’re being rushed out the door with little consideration to the product they’re producing. Lots of new firearms have a couple issues at the beginning and reputable companies will always make it right. That seems to be the case here but it’s a risky purchase with a ban looming. Your lifetime warranty would become irrelevant if it came into effect today. How would I send the firearm back for replacement when it becomes prohibited.
You need to understand that ANYTHING semi-auto that you buy with a detachable magazine is going to e prohibited by C21 when it receives Royal Assent and Comes Info Force. Most likely this coming Spring some time. It doesn't matter what you buy - if it is even remotely a "black gun" it will be banned.
You argument concerning an inabiiity to get warranty serviciing for the Templar once it is prohibited apples equally to anything you buy, including the WK-190 Gen 2. Once they are banned, you cannot transport them to a gunsmith for servicing, so it stands to reason that you will not be able to obtain an ATT to ship your prohib back for factory servicing. Because you can no longer legally discharge a prohibited long-gun, the argument willl be that you do not require factory servicing becasue the firearm cannot be legallly used in any case.
Basically they are rushing orders out the door, good luck after that.
I also read a post from someone stating that he called them and when he started asking questions, they treated him like an idiot.
