I used Speer's data with CFE223 to push the 250gr to 2636, half-grain under max out of a 23" barrel. Going to try with 225's next and see if 2750 is in the cards - not a stretch IMO.
Thoughts on the following cartridges? 300PRC, 338WM, 35 Whelen, 416 Rigby, 458 Win
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
I used Speer's data with CFE223 to push the 250gr to 2636, half-grain under max out of a 23" barrel. Going to try with 225's next and see if 2750 is in the cards - not a stretch IMO.
Crazy, to get over 2750 FPS with 250 speers you need 76.6 grains of RL26 in a 338 wm. Average loads with older powders near 2650.
To be fair while 338 wm loads are fairly consistent across powders most 35 whelen loads are ~300 FPS below that
To be fair while 338 wm loads are fairly consistent across powders most 35 whelen loads are ~300 FPS below that
That's impressive .35 Whelen Speer #14 lists 250gr 2386 fps mv using H335 M700 22" barrel test rifle. What barrel length to get 2709 fps mv using power pro 2000-mr? Pulled this off the web H335 data looks like 24"?
Barnes #3 list 250gr 2586 fps using BL-C(2) 24" barrel.
Barnes data online lists 225gr 2701 fps mv: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/35-Whelen.pdf
Loading 250gr SAF 2450 fps mv in my .35 Whelen 22" 1:16 barrel pretty good wallop works ok on Bull Elk out to ~150 m.
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf
Barnes #3 list 250gr 2586 fps using BL-C(2) 24" barrel.
Barnes data online lists 225gr 2701 fps mv: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/35-Whelen.pdf
Loading 250gr SAF 2450 fps mv in my .35 Whelen 22" 1:16 barrel pretty good wallop works ok on Bull Elk out to ~150 m.
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf
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No argument there.
Reason I posted is based on my own limited experience with the 338 RUM.
I hunt with a 338 Win Mag and 225-250 grain bullets. Also have a 340 Weatherby that gets occasional use.
The RUM that I fired reminded be of shooting a 416 Rigby in the recoil dept.
Maybe it was stock design. Maybe just me but damn that thing hurt.
That's impressive .35 Whelen Speer #14 lists 250gr 2386 fps mv using H335 M700 22" barrel test rifle. What barrel length to get 2709 fps mv using power pro 2000-mr? Pulled this off the web H335 data looks like 24"?
Barnes #3 list 250gr 2586 fps using BL-C(2) 24" barrel.
Barnes data online lists 225gr 2701 fps mv: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/35-Whelen.pdf
Loading 250gr SAF 2450 fps mv in my .35 Whelen 22" 1:16 barrel pretty good wallop works ok on Bull Elk out to ~150 m.
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf
Here's my ladder test results using their data - I was highly skeptical of their results but have 4 pounds of CFE223 for a .223 reloading project and a box of 250gr Speers from a previous .358 Norma I sold off so decided to put this to the test. Chrono'd with a Magnetospeed out of a 23" barrel.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...309-Ladder-Test!-35-Whelen-CFE223-250gr-Speer
I get 2715 with 250 gr Speers out of my 350 Rem Mag. Never could get quite that speed in my 35 Whelen. In my 338 WM, I preferred 210 gr Noslers. Could push them over 2900 fps with RL19, made for a fast powerful load. - dan
Of the cartridges listed, the 338 Win Mag would be my recommendation based on first hand experience with the targeted species.
I have taken moose, elk, grizzly and bison over the years, from 20 yards out to 370 yards with 300's (Win and WSM), 338 Win Mag, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, and 376 Steyr (ballistic twin to milder 375 H&H and Ruger loads with 260/270 gr bullets).
I can tell you that while bullet placement is everything, that there is a significant difference in the on-game performance on bison between the 300 with 180 gr bullets (2) and the 338 Win Mag with 210+ gr bullets (3). The 338 has the next level of impression that a big bull bison just doesn't shrug off as easily. The 376 Steyr (2) also smacked a large bull bison at 200 yards (longest shot on bison w/ this rifle) with good authority. The extra frontal area and weight gave great performance, with each jump up in caliber. Quicker, cleaner kills.
While I like the 35 Whelen, and really like my 9.3x62 and 376, if I am facing longer shots, the 338 gets the vote.
Having shot a number of elk with the 300 and 338, I also find that the 338 also provides quicker, cleaner kills compared to the 300. (have taken 2 dozen elk with cartridges ranging from 6.5x55 to 376 from 70 to 475 yards).
I have taken moose, elk, grizzly and bison over the years, from 20 yards out to 370 yards with 300's (Win and WSM), 338 Win Mag, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, and 376 Steyr (ballistic twin to milder 375 H&H and Ruger loads with 260/270 gr bullets).
I can tell you that while bullet placement is everything, that there is a significant difference in the on-game performance on bison between the 300 with 180 gr bullets (2) and the 338 Win Mag with 210+ gr bullets (3). The 338 has the next level of impression that a big bull bison just doesn't shrug off as easily. The 376 Steyr (2) also smacked a large bull bison at 200 yards (longest shot on bison w/ this rifle) with good authority. The extra frontal area and weight gave great performance, with each jump up in caliber. Quicker, cleaner kills.
While I like the 35 Whelen, and really like my 9.3x62 and 376, if I am facing longer shots, the 338 gets the vote.
Having shot a number of elk with the 300 and 338, I also find that the 338 also provides quicker, cleaner kills compared to the 300. (have taken 2 dozen elk with cartridges ranging from 6.5x55 to 376 from 70 to 475 yards).
Yep .416's my go to hunting/stopping caliber 300gr/350gr TSX bullets of choice. Plus VLD bullets available from CEB.
VLD bullets: my .338 WM vs my .416 RM note energy level at 500 yds for example of my .416 = 1.6 tons of energy more wallop bigger hole than .338.
VLD bullets: my .338 WM vs my .416 RM note energy level at 500 yds for example of my .416 = 1.6 tons of energy more wallop bigger hole than .338.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
That's a damn good looking rifle.
Thanks, BUM....I actually made two of them for bush work... the .358-375 Ruger and the 7.62X57 HC... I have already taken half a dozen animals with the HC and it has proven to be a very accurate, pleasant shooter and a comfortable, robust carry rifle.
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If I didn’t have a 358 norma I would get one of those 35-375rugers made for me.
Just not much sence in having another so close.
I have so many hornady 250gr bullets on hand I could shoot for two lifetimes with her.
Gun shop closed down a bunch of years ago and I ended up with a mystery box at the auction and it had about 1500 of them in it.
Sure do like smacking things with it.
Bigger caliber guns do seam to make a bit of a difference when you hit game with them.
I have shot deer/moose and cows with as small as a 243 and up to my 450 3 1/4 nitro and 35 cal plus it seams to not ever need a follow up shot.
Just not much sence in having another so close.
I have so many hornady 250gr bullets on hand I could shoot for two lifetimes with her.
Gun shop closed down a bunch of years ago and I ended up with a mystery box at the auction and it had about 1500 of them in it.
Sure do like smacking things with it.
Bigger caliber guns do seam to make a bit of a difference when you hit game with them.
I have shot deer/moose and cows with as small as a 243 and up to my 450 3 1/4 nitro and 35 cal plus it seams to not ever need a follow up shot.
Reaching out and hitting with more authority than a 30-06 isn't that hard. A 35 Whelen , 416 or 458 isn't going to do it it though, if by reaching out you mean shooting past powder burn distance. I have them they just aren't reach out and smack things material. A 338 is more gun in everyway possible for sure, but its sort of sluggish with the heavies and short of BCs with the lights. Doesn't make it bad, but if you actually wanted to do a cost benefit availiably analysis you could just land on the 300 Win and be done with it. Might be too boring for you though.
