Thoughts on the following cartridges? 300PRC, 338WM, 35 Whelen, 416 Rigby, 458 Win
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
You can do that with a Lee Enfield and ammo left over from the Great War. It's not much of a plan "A".
A bullet that has zero expansion compared to this? You can stop grasping at any time now.
It's a sliding scale... and the analogy holds. This is what I mean by "kicking puppies," my experience does not line up with the glowing claims made about Barnes solid copper bullets... and clearly I am not the only one who has experienced this. Sure, they kill... but compared to other iptions, they do it poorly. You don't have to take it personally, believe what you want, use what you want... but for those undecided, there are some pretty experienced folks arriving at the same conclusions. My final post on the subject in this thread.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That’s quite an eclectic mix of cartridges to do the analysis on. Outfitting was good for seeing the results of a half dozen different chamberings a year on a dozen or more animals. Well probably more, but many chamberings were ballistic twins so no point splitting them apart.
I had many an enlightening campfire conversation through that with the guides and clients on what we were seeing in their hunting around BC and the world, and one of the first was with Dogleg on a grizzly hunt , though we couldn’t light a fire as it was far too wet. Let’s call it a puddleside conversation rather than fireside, as it was not possible to light a fire with unlimited gasoline wet. The subject of Taylor had come up as we sat sodden upon salt bags in the cold jungle, and Dogleg made the point in sarcasm much drier than the weather what the common thread in effective cartridges was Taylor apparently didn’t fully grasp. Those cartridges that appeared to have an outsized killing effect all had one thing in common, “I know… It’s the fast ones!” Fast is relative, in that time and for the point, 7x57 qualified as fast.
I saw that born out time and again guiding on grizzlies and others. The most effective chamberings I witnessed on coastal grizzlies for falling on their own shadow were the 7mm RM, .300 WM, and .300 Ultra. .375 Ruger & H&H did well, but honestly were below the three listed prior in time till stone cold dead. This doesn’t mean I’m Weatherby minded, but time and again I saw for North American game right up to Wood Bison, speed kills. I settled on an guestimated number of 2400fps impacts and above having outsized effect compared to slower impacts, be they longer range on mountain goats where the bullet dropped in velocity, or slower heavier rounds like a .450 marlin (or .45-70) at closer range.
In time I read FBI internal ballistics reports where they found a phase shift in bullet performance on soft tissues at 2200fps and above. Above that mark, permanent tissue and organ damage occurred as the speed of the shock waves traveling through the tissues ruptured cell walls and caused radiating damage far from the wounds tract. This was one of the major reasons aside from body armour they moved to carbines instead of 9mm sub guns and shotguns. This isn’t to say a .450 Marlin, or .458 Win doesn’t kill. They’re 100% reliable at killing, they just will not do it as fast when loaded to arrive at the animal below 2200fps at impact. And likely, a little more makes those shock waves more damaging. In your search for more bang flops, I’d look first to shot placement as usual, second to speed and try and hit the animal with 2400fps plus to have a buffer on 2200, and third to the bullet.
If I had to pick a single most effective chambering in North America it’s a .300. If I had to pick one I like shooting the most in combination with its effectiveness it’s a 7mm mag. If I had to pick a least effective relative its recoil, it’s a .45-70 and the like. A .458 loaded with a 275-350gr is actually pretty damn good, but its range is limited due to the wine cork bullet profile and rapid loss of speed.
Enough small change for the morning.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Let me know once you test on 600 live animals. Dogleg has killed more animals to test bullet than most people have seen. I've seen some of the results. I trust his analysis.
Yes we’ve all heard the testing claim. It comes up on any thread the word Barnes is mentioned.
I’ve shot enough bullets into animals to make up my own mind. Run a few up a buffalos ass and penetration becomes important. Even with a deer. The versatility of a mono makes it easy to walk an extra 30 yards when things are perfect.
I’ve shot enough bullets into animals to make up my own mind. Run a few up a buffalos ass and penetration becomes important. Even with a deer. The versatility of a mono makes it easy to walk an extra 30 yards when things are perfect.
I've killed 2.7 times more buffalo than the door gunner in "Full Metal Jacket".
You?
Yes, many times. Enough to decide that faced with that necessity that the best thing to do is break their hip. Or more precisely their pelvis. Down they go. You can drop an elephant like that.
Just for clarity, I'm talking about follow up shots.
The accuracy, price, availability and penetration of a Barnes bullet makes it a great choice for hunting. It will do everything a cup and core bullet will and then some ime. You may need to walk a few more steps on a conventional broadside shot but that doesn’t make any difference considering it’s benefits.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've seen the photos. Carcasses everywhere.
I’ve used a bunch of tsx and TTSX and gmx(I do t like those as much) anyway I only shot moose and caribou with them, and not even many of them, but every time the moose was dead and not often they walked further than a few steps… I hat said I had one moose who took a bunch of follow up shots to make him hit the ground but it was the only one!!
Never shot a Cape buffalo, we don’t have them up here!
Never shot a Cape buffalo, we don’t have them up here!
