Alright you got me
Thank you for your honesty. Hard to find these days. Happy holidays to you and your family
Household grants help build food sovereignty for First Nation families and communitie
- Thread starter Thomas D'Arcy McGee
- Start date
Thank you for your honesty. Hard to find these days. Happy holidays to you and your family
Was gonna say the same...if someone is going to go there, at least be open about it.
Instead of talking about different definitions of a version of the word not even used lol.
Have to wholeheartedly agree that handouts are bad for sustainability though. Absolutely! They are terrible. Actually, when you give newcomers handouts, sometimes they end up surviving to colonize you
Land grabbing works much better in the long term, it seems.I kid, I kid.
Last edited:
In 1953 the Canadian Government setup the Inuit hamlet of Grise Fiord on Elsmere Island which was setup to assert sovereignty in the High Arctic. There is a national interest in keeping people in un-inhabited areas of the country, otherwise other nations will claim the land, so supporting people who live in remote locations is necessary. I live in a more remote location and have a very different perspective on how people live there lives.
That is a very extreme example Rhino, and probably has some merit in subsidizing a presence. The other 99% of subsidized support to live in clearly zero chance of employment environments is just plain unsustainable and unnatural. If someone chooses to live in such a place, all the power to them, just don’t expect a continued pay check to do so. Only in Canada is this a option based on a blood quantum from 140 years ago. This is a concept right out of a dystopian sci-fi future novel, it is just plain unsustainable and will lead to divisive apartheid concepts that have been proven to be unsuccessful since humans began. And yes, I understand that that there has been wrongs done in the settlement of Canada, as has been done since the beginning of human existence. There is not a country that is exempt, we are all immigrants unless you are from the plains of Africa.
Agree. - dan
Does that excuse any country from ever invading another and seizing it by force then? "Hey, you technically were not here first! Even though you were actually here before we showed up"?
If Operation Sealion in WW2 had worked could Germany have said "Well it's not really their island you know. The English people weren't created there" or would that still have just been wrong?
Just the way of the world right? Human history? If modern Canada decided to take, say, Madagascar would that be okay? Way she historically goes boys, what happened 2000 years ago is still relevant to human conduct and Bellum Romanum and all that. Woe to the vanquished".
The whole "you're an immigrant too" is such a fallacious attempt at rationalizing continued immoral conduct lol. Doesnt hold up to logical analysis at all. Same with "that's history".
If Operation Sealion in WW2 had worked could Germany have said "Well it's not really their island you know. The English people weren't created there" or would that still have just been wrong?
Just the way of the world right? Human history? If modern Canada decided to take, say, Madagascar would that be okay? Way she historically goes boys, what happened 2000 years ago is still relevant to human conduct and Bellum Romanum and all that. Woe to the vanquished".
The whole "you're an immigrant too" is such a fallacious attempt at rationalizing continued immoral conduct lol. Doesnt hold up to logical analysis at all. Same with "that's history".
All good Joel, thanks for your version and perception of the world. I just tend to disagree with the naive and simplistic version of human history that you offer. I am not advocating continued conquering, rather, I acknowledge that it has been a part of human history since the beginning and has effected every country in the world. Humans indeed are a species that can and continue to be brutal, and the brutality is not subject to blood quantum ratios nor ethnic background. I am not to blame, nor my children or my grandchildren. What I do advocate for is equality and accountability of all people within a nation based on the here and now and the future. No immoral intentions on my part, just my observations of a completely unsustainable system that we have created in Canada.
There is no equality and never has been for most of human history, except maybe in hunter gatherer societies. Why is it that if you can afford to buy an electric car that you receive a tax break in buying the vehicle and are now subsidized when you drive it, since no tax for gas which helps to pay for road up keep and subsidizes public transport in urban area's. Also no carbon tax (which is just another sin tax), by the federal government. I wonder about electric vehicles how the electricity is going to be generated, maybe fusion power at some point in the future! I read recently that BC and Manitoba have a moratorium on new crypto mining applications, because they produce very little in the way of employment and use very large amounts of electricity. When I was child my parents taught me that the ethnic or religious background of a person was of no importance, since green was the only color that tended to differentiate people (i.e. the color of US dollars).
What's naive and simplistic about it, exactly? From my perspective it seems like "well, that's the way of the world" is rather reductive and simplistic.
For a country to have said "hey, seizing other nations by force is wrong!" while at the same time occupying land which was seized from others, is hypocritical. There's no getting around that. Or that what is being paid in return is a pittance compared to the value of what was taken. Canada and Canadians pride themselves on having liberated other nations. Well...Knowing, acting and claiming that such things are wrong, I really don't see what bearing the history of the human race has on this specific and recent case study lol.
It's not as stupid as the "but you have technology now!" moral absolution lol...I'll give it that.
I tend to look at it as not a racial matter at all, but rather one of citizenship and of who the rightful owners being compensated for seizure of their property are. Even at the time of occupation here, the British and then Canadian govts knew what they were doing was wrong enough that they made Indians the wards of the Crown and passed laws providing for maintaining a certain standard of living for them. And here we are today.
Being a guy who looks at things from a classical liberal/libertarian lean, I don't see how there's a problem for compensating a people for what was taken from them, including over time. There is no way to do that without a blood quantum, but there it is.
I mean, I think the govt did you a major wrong by paying us that pittance with your tax dollars instead of taking from the timber barons, rail barons and other filthy rich people who continue to exploit the land, while YOU pay off their debt to us. But no one asked us what we thought. Course you, your children and their children get a pretty decent place to live out of this deal too, so there's that. But...
No one says you're to blame. At least I don't. But your govt is content to steal your money at gunpoint and give it to us because they got an absolute peach of a deal on the second biggest landmass in the world and all the valuable stuff on it. and they took it. The buck stopped somewhere, and they chose you. ####ty.
I had a conversation with a guy who is from Dubai. He asked why everything is so messed up in Canada. The conversation started with his question about what/who are the indigenous people that are constantly mentioned in the news (pipeline protests woth RCMP removing indigenous people from their own land was in the current news) Why there seems to be a hyperfocus on mentioning someone's ethnicity when reporting crimes. He was genuinely interested and did not understand. Massive cultural shift from Dubai.
He went on to talk about how things are done in Dubai.
How resources (oil) was owned by all citizens of Dubai. That the government uses the money from oil for it citizens. No "corporation profits" like in canada.
When a citizens wants to build a house, the get a loan directly from the government and a plot of land to build on. If they pay their loan diligently, the government shows up one day and just forgives the remaining debt. All because the oil "profits" are actually "citizen profits". Not corporation profits....
Was an interesting conversation to say the least.
Especially since mortgages are not available on reservations, nor loans, nor is equity in your home. Just some of the things that Canada citizens enjoy....but paying tax? Yeah, you're definitely getting shrewed over on that part. Especially since corporations continue to reap record profits, year after year after year.....
...and somehow you've been convinced that Status Indians are your problem.
He went on to talk about how things are done in Dubai.
How resources (oil) was owned by all citizens of Dubai. That the government uses the money from oil for it citizens. No "corporation profits" like in canada.
When a citizens wants to build a house, the get a loan directly from the government and a plot of land to build on. If they pay their loan diligently, the government shows up one day and just forgives the remaining debt. All because the oil "profits" are actually "citizen profits". Not corporation profits....
Was an interesting conversation to say the least.
Especially since mortgages are not available on reservations, nor loans, nor is equity in your home. Just some of the things that Canada citizens enjoy....but paying tax? Yeah, you're definitely getting shrewed over on that part. Especially since corporations continue to reap record profits, year after year after year.....
...and somehow you've been convinced that Status Indians are your problem.
Wasn't phuckin Philemon Wright gonna be footing any bills lol
While the equity/mortgage problem does really suck, its nice to be able to say we really own land/a house on that land...Not the govt. takes money from you for "your" property every year at gunpoint and if you don't pay, you get tossed on your ass and they take it.
Interesting, that. Especially being upset about how those taxes are spent later....rather like telling a robber with a gun in your face that he better not spend whats in your wallet on drugs.
*shrug*
While the equity/mortgage problem does really suck, its nice to be able to say we really own land/a house on that land...Not the govt. takes money from you for "your" property every year at gunpoint and if you don't pay, you get tossed on your ass and they take it.
Interesting, that. Especially being upset about how those taxes are spent later....rather like telling a robber with a gun in your face that he better not spend whats in your wallet on drugs.
*shrug*
Dubai, picture if the Fundamentalist Mormons in Utah all of a sudden were sitting on one of the World's largest oilfields and then just sat around watching camel races while millions of Mexican build Las Vegas on steroids while enjoying a security guarantee from the USA.
There is that...The few thousand citizens of Dubai have it very well, the migrant Asian workers are treated like ####.
But there is something to be said for the use of more profits from natural resources to fund more throughout the country.
Nah, I had a dog with that name and really liked him, but admit it was hard when he took off and I had to ask neighbours if they'd seen "#aggot".
Doesnt really give me any incentive to "just be a Canadian"....seems like raw deal...especially with the amount of complaints...
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Good to see some sense in the commentary, rather than YouTube quality adolescent-esque comments.
At the end of the day we live in one of the best places in the world, imperfections and all. And anyone who’s been to many remote northern reserves will immediately recognize many in our country weren’t dealt the winningest hand. Far harder cards to play than the guys streaming flags from their jacked up 3/4 tons have in hand.
true dat. Imagine how much better it could be if the squabbling stopped and started to focus on the real issues. Like an overreaching government and big oil corporations paying some dues so the huge 'recession proof' profits can actually go to the people?
Is that "liberals" ?
Agreed
The lack of sympathy is disturbing in these threads.
Too bad we cant send most of these jokers to a remote reserve to get a reality check…
You want to whine about handouts? The biggest one was to us…
You might not be culpable for historical crimes but you sure as #### benefited from them, and this is coming from a first generation Canadian who does too
The idea that people “choose” to live in remote communities is laughable. Many have been on that land for 1000s of years. I bet some here would die before giving up land their family has held for 100. Until VERY recently leaving the reserve meant a loss of status
Not to mention our governments historical policies of relocation; especially in the territories
The north is the resource extraction block that keeps this country running. #####ing about handouts while you live off the resources and money funneled from the areas these people live in is frankly hilarious. We are a primary extraction state, and we sure as hell ain’t extracting from Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto
Raising debeers, rio tinto and suncors taxes a couple percent might be a novel solution, but that’s c-c-c-communism
Now let me put my flak jacket on before the bigot boomers show up
Last edited:
Preach brother
Very few who know or understand the relationship of the Indian act and fee simple land. Something that non indigenous Canadians need to learn about and consider imo. Not to mention all the bull#### and myths bandied around surrounding treaties
I’ll be happy to buy you, Joel, Mig and Ardent a beer anytime. Honestly a little proud to see guys saying stuff like this on this forum
