Carcano shooting

tiriaq said:
I wonder if powder coated wheelweight bullets might not be the way to go.
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I'm going to use WW, but I should not need to powder coat them if lubrisized to .270 and gas checked.

I think the PPU .268" FMJBTs with a short bearing surface (open base) will likely also work reasonably well, though too bad they are BTs...
 
Paul_T said:
123 or 139 grain PPU? I guess the 123's if you shoot the soft points.

Have you tried the 139 FMJ's by chance?
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no, not yet, but I expect they will shoot reliably. They should also shoot slightly better than the soft points as they are open base, but don't expect miracles, they are undersized .254" bullets.
 
Unfortunately I dont have any of my old loads still kicking around, I was having good success and still sitting on 300 of the hornady bullets, but this was in my 91/24 TS, I do believe it had progressive rifling but this was a gun that was arsenal cut down to make the Carbine.

I'll look at my book tonight and see what it lists, but if 30gr is over max paired with a Magnum rifle primer I could easily see where you would run into pressure issues.

I'll still be trying these bullets when my new rifle comes as that's all I have available.
 
I posted the actually Hornaday manual data for the bullet above. 30gn is no over max according to Hornaday, quite the contrary actually.
 
Claven2 said:
Well I had an "eventful" day today trying out my new 1941 Brescia Moscetto.

Day went like this: 1 clip of the PPU soft point .264 that's for sale everywhere. Fed and shot just fine, but can't comment on accuracy. I was shooting on the back 50, kneeling, in dying light at a metal gong at 50 meters. 1 round hit the plate at the top edge, other 5 were misses - presumably high. I had forgot my glasses, it was getting dark, and I was burying the post in the bottom of the notch and using a 6 o'clock hold. Next time I'm out with it, I'll bring my glases, a bench, and big paper targets to see what it's really doing. FWIW, windage was about right.

So function test went well with the .264 bullets in factory rounds.

I decided to try the leftover loads that had shot well in a Modelo 1941 rifle I had a few years back - noting the 41's don't have progressive rifling and have shallower lands.

First round - no issues, but stouter than the factory PPU. Hit about 14 inches high on a paper target (again, kneeling in bad light, probably not my bext effort and the elevation was likely more me than the sights).

Second round - felt like the first round - except the bolt would not open. I eventually got it open by slapping the handle hard a few times. when it came out, the extractor had slipped off the rim and the spent primer fell out of the rifle. Not a good sign. Brass was seized in the rifle. I ejected the rest of the clip and packed up - I was understandably purturbed.

When I got home, I easily knocked out the shell with a piece of .630" brass rod. Here's what I found:



Notice the primer pocket is visibly enlarged. I tried dropping a fresh WLRM primer in the pocket it fell right out again - so the pocket is significantly swelled larger.

Here's round number 2's casing (bottom) next to round No.1's casing (top). Both shot the hornady .267" bullet:



Notice the chamber mouth made a distinct frosted ring around the base of the case on the second round. This is the thickest part of the case head, but it swelled out 7 thou in diameter (!). I'm hugely lucky the case didn't fail - thanks PPU for making good brass.

Someone will ask, but I followed Hornady's load manual for this bullet to the letter. Here is the recommended data for this bullet:

I went with 30 gr varget over a WLRM primer in virgin Graf/PPU brass. Clearly well within the recommended load range. This nearly blew up the case in a progressive twist moschetto.

The rifle checks out OK, thankfully. No bulges, no damage, no measurable change in headspace. But I think firing these again would be a very bad idea in this carbine.

This week I'm going to break down the remaining 48 rounds I have into components and stop using this bullet in carcanos.

So there you go Andy - a verifiable bad experience with the Hornady bullet including pictures. Before today, I was in the "hogwash" camp on these bullets over-pressuring guns, but no longer.

I have 100 of the .268" PPU rounds coming that I'll try, but those have a much shorter bearing surface and thinner jackets - I think they'll likely do better.
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You're a reliable source and I am now a believer!
 
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So my ppu 139gn FMJBTs showed up today from PPU. These are advertised as .268, but they all mic to .267" - same as the Hornady LRSPs that give some people grief.

Here's the bullets side by side for comparisson:

hErnyUI.jpg


The PPU bullet is .267" for less than 2/3 the length of the Hornady bullet. The hornady is full diameter for a whopping .90" of it's length. The PPU is only full diameter for about .52" of its length.

The PPU also seems to have typical jacket material, while we know the Hornady bullet's jacket material was significantly thickened over other Hornady bullets.

These PPU bullets don't seem to come with any special load warnings, so I'm going to load some test rounds in PPU brass, likely will try H4896, 28.0gn, which is a good starting load from the Lee manual. Will report back if there are any pressure warning signs.

In the meantime, I do have the .270"-165gn NOE bullet mold with GC on order, along with the correct Hornady GCs, a .267" lee expander plug, Lee case expander die, and a lubrisizer die and top punch to size/lube the NOE bullet to .270" nominal.

When I get that all set up, I'll maybe need some advice on a good 165gn starting load. I found some GB data from a few years back where guys were getting good results starting with 14.0gn of 4227 - I might start there.
 
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I have almost 100 of those Hornady Carcano bullets and I'm thinking about sizing the top half down to 0.257" or so to make them "bore-riders".
 
Claven2 said:
What's your strategy to do that Andy? Do you have a die?
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I'm away from my reloading room right now, but I have a large collection of Lee push-through sizers including several custom ones. Lube it up, set the die height, push through part-way and tap out and repeat.
 
that makes sense Andy, I had not thought of doing that. If it works, let me know. I;d be very interested. I'm thinking a .25" driving band base would work rather well in these. Even if the rest of the bullet were .257, .260, or maybe even .264.
 
Claven2 said:
that makes sense Andy, I had not thought of doing that. If it works, let me know. I;d be very interested. I'm thinking a .25" driving band base would work rather well in these. Even if the rest of the bullet were .257, .260, or maybe even .264.
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Yes, in one of the links I shared there were some bullets that looked like they applied that design. I'll keep you posted.

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How many diameters does PPU make? 267, 264, 263 and there're guys online saying the PPU factory ammo is 261.
 
My ppu factory Carcano ammo, clearly stamped so on the box. The bullets mic at .261 not impressed. I’m likely never going to fire my Carcano again. Unless I can gather the parts for a 7.62x39 conversion or a manufacturer makes a proper projectile. having to fuss with custom molds and dies isn’t my cup of tea.
 
Dyspnea said:
My ppu factory Carcano ammo, clearly stamped so on the box. The bullets mic at .261 not impressed. I’m likely never going to fire my Carcano again. Unless I can gather the parts for a 7.62x39 conversion or a manufacturer makes a proper projectile. having to fuss with custom molds and dies isn’t my cup of tea.
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139 or 123? I have 2 boxes of PPU 123 here marked 0.264 on the box. They mic out from 0.263 to 0.2365
 
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