45-85 Springfield

DANCESWITHEMPTIES

DANCESWITHEMPTIES

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Uber Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
98   0   0
Ok, I finally got a chance to go through an auction purchase of some vintage ammo. One part of it is eight rounds of 45-85 Springfield. They appear very similar to a 45-90 yet I have no literature on a 45-85 "Springfield". Is it the same cartridge as the Winchester? The case appears to be copper & has a head stamp of "R" & bellow the primer & an "F". On the horizontal is a single digit on the left side (varies) & either a "81", "82" or "83" on the other side. I'm assuming that is the month & year of manufacture. One of the cartridges written in marker states "45-85 Springfield Sniper". Not sure what that means or if it matters. It's a lead round nose bullet of impressive weight. I'll try & get some pics in the next couple of days. I'm of the mindset that it's just one of the variations of the 45-90, but any information on this round is greatly appreciated.
-Dances
 
The cartridge O.A.L. is 3.08" Base diameter & rim thickness is identical to a 45-70. And the case length is approximately 2.4" I know I have some 45-90's kicking around & will dig one up later to compare.

45-85.jpg


A 45-70 from W.R.A. Co. for comparison.
45-85pic2.jpg

If my literature is right the case is roughly a 45-90.
 

Attachments

  • 45-85.jpg
    45-85.jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 77
  • 45-85pic2.jpg
    45-85pic2.jpg
    50.5 KB · Views: 77
Last edited:
I recall reading about these ages ago (in printed books, if anyone remembers those). So my memory is fuzzy on the "why" but they were trying all kinds of interesting things out back then. They must have a filler of some sort in there, be interesting to X-Ray. Might have been experimenting with lengths and such and someone in their R&D at that time had license to build a run on what was essentially an experiment, but with the advantage they could run the heavier recoiling .45-90 if necessary... all interesting speculation.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Might have been experimenting with lengths and such and someone in their R&D at that time had license to build a run on what was essentially an experiment, but with the advantage they could run the heavier recoiling .45-90 if necessary... all interesting speculation.
Click to expand...

From the same source I referred to above:

"Between 1879 and 1884, the Springfield Armory was experimenting with a long range cartridge with a longer case, a 500 grain bullet, and 10 additional grains of powder. While these cartridges tended to be more accurate than the standard cartridge, it was found that the heavier bullet was responsible for the increase in accuracy, not the heavier powder charge. In January of 1882, the Frankford Arsenal began producing the 45-70 rifle cartridge with a 500 grain bullet; this cartridge is one of those. The 405 grain bullet continued to be used for the .45-55 carbine cartridge."
 
jamesharrison said:
Curiouser & Curiouser!!!

The R stands for Rifle (as opposed to Carbine), the F stands for Frankford Arsenal, the cartridge was manufactured in June 1883.

Ref:
https://oldammo.com/november04.htm

For all intents and purposes, it is a normal military load for a .45-70; BUT on a 45-90 length case?????
Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident that this is exactly what the Springfield long range rifles used ( .45-85-500 ) based on what I've read in the last few days.

I'm sure there is a trapdoor expert on this forum somewhere that can fill in the details.

This site has some details:

https://www.trapdoorcollector.com/longrange.html

Chris.
 
Another interesting thing I learned about trapdoors last year, is that they were used to test the original 30-40 Krag cartridge. Given that everyone seems to consider the trapdoor action quite weak, this really surprised me. There is a utube video on these rifles on the "Forgotten Weapons" channel.

Chris.
 
Google "45-70 at two miles"
This ctg was based on the 45 Sharps 2 4/10" case.
The US army was attempting to increase the range of the 45-70-405 ctg by lengthening the case and loading 80gr pdr and 500 gr bt.
Tests against the 45-70 ctg showed no appreciable difference in range so it was decided to standardise the 45-70-500 load.
A few dozen Springfield trapdoor rifles were made for this ctg.
 
jamesharrison said:
From the same source I referred to above:

"Between 1879 and 1884, the Springfield Armory was experimenting with a long range cartridge with a longer case, a 500 grain bullet, and 10 additional grains of powder. While these cartridges tended to be more accurate than the standard cartridge, it was found that the heavier bullet was responsible for the increase in accuracy, not the heavier powder charge. In January of 1882, the Frankford Arsenal began producing the 45-70 rifle cartridge with a 500 grain bullet; this cartridge is one of those. The 405 grain bullet continued to be used for the .45-55 carbine cartridge."
Click to expand...

there ya go - not just a hat rack up here :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom