.284 vs .30 vs .338 for long range hunting?

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Northern Shooter

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Which cartridge "family" does everyone prefer for their long range big game hunting? Realistically I'm talking about taking elk/moose sized game >400m which is where the typical 30.06/.308's/6.5s start to fall off.

I'm still shopping around for a long range hunting rifle and have yet to decide on a specific cartridge. What are the pros/cons of each?

7mm-08? 7 Rem Mag? 7 PRC?

300 WM? 300 PRC?

338 WM? 338 Lapua?
 
7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag are old standbys for ELR target shooting and long range hunting, 7mm PRC and 300 PRC are the new hotness, very similar just optimized more for long range shooting than all around hunting. All will do 1000 without breaking a sweat. 338 Lapua is just badass if you can handle the recoil but there is no need for it if you are only shooting to 1000.
 
mikeyb said:
but there is no need for it if you are only shooting to 1000.
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Haha that just sounds funny to me without context but I guess 1000m is where a lot of ELR shooters consider to be the START of long range shooting.

From what reading ive done it sounds like then 7mm's(.284) have higher BCs and sectional densities than most .30s so they should be carrying their energy out more efficiently than the larger 30s.

Other than producing the larger diameter hole, what advantages do .30 cals have over 7mm at long range? I'm guessing ammo/components may be cheaper and easier to source than 7mm. I would also guess that .30 are carrying more energy downrange but that doesn't appear to be the case.
 
What I'm trying to decipher is where one shines over the other and if the increased cost is worth it stepping up to one of the .30 or .338s over a 7mm.

1. The 7s appear to have the highest BCs and higher sectional densities when comparing equally weighted projectile classes.

What advantages do the .30s and .338s have over the 7's given the above information?
 
Under 400 With proper shot placement Id say a fast twist 6.5 or 7mm that can send the heavies would be good cause you will have less recoil allowing you to shoot better or keep your hearing intact :D

That said I find the 30s a good middle weight they are slowly making higher BC bullets an with a custom 300wm or a good 300 PRC you can create some great long range potential. An you wont feel under gunned like some do with a 6.5 PRC, 6.5SS, 6.5 - 300 WSM.

300WM being the old tried and true I feel like reloading components might be easier to get over say the 7 or 300 PRC.

If youre going to push beyond say 500 consistently I would be look at a 338 just for down range energy.

Another factor to consider is bullet choice. Even the new stuff can't push a solid copper fast enough to really get expansion at extended ranges.

One I have always kind of wanted but never done is a 28 Nosler as the vortex podcast mentioned 6mils to a grand sounds pretty sweet.

All in all I would say a 7 PRC or 300 PRC would be great for what you want but also might have extended wait times. I would consider a custom throat 300 win mag and a fast twist barrel.

B
 
bdb.hunting said:
Under 400 With proper shot placement Id say a fast twist 6.5 or 7mm that can send the heavies would be good cause you will have less recoil allowing you to shoot better or keep your hearing intact :D

That said I find the 30s a good middle weight they are slowly making higher BC bullets an with a custom 300wm or a good 300 PRC you can create some great long range potential. An you wont feel under gunned like some do with a 6.5 PRC, 6.5SS, 6.5 - 300 WSM.

300WM being the old tried and true I feel like reloading components might be easier to get over say the 7 or 300 PRC.

If youre going to push beyond say 500 consistently I would be look at a 338 just for down range energy.

Another factor to consider is bullet choice. Even the new stuff can't push a solid copper fast enough to really get expansion at extended ranges.

One I have always kind of wanted but never done is a 28 Nosler as the vortex podcast mentioned 6mils to a grand sounds pretty sweet.

All in all I would say a 7 PRC or 300 PRC would be great for what you want but also might have extended wait times. I would consider a custom throat 300 win mag and a fast twist barrel.

B
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It looks like only the 338 Lapua outperforms the 300 PRC at long range. When comparing 300 PRC to 338 WM, the 300 is outperforming it at extended ranges and the 7 PRC outperforms the 300 PRC somewhere between 800-900M. I also threw in the 6.5 PRC for reference.

For reference - Cartridge - Energy (ft-lbs)/Velocity (fps) at 500m - Energy (ft-lbs)/Velocity (fps) at 1000m.

338 LM 285gr - 3,080 / 2,206 - 1,907 / 1,736

7mm PRC 180gr - 2,317 / 2,407 - 1,454 / 1907

300 PRC 225gr - 2,453 / 2,267 - 1,407 / 1,716

338 WM 250gr - 2,319 / 2,044 - 1,161 / 1,466

6.5 PRC 140gr - 1,597 / 2,267 - 839 / 1,643
 
Long range hunting, AKA sniping, is immoral. Reaching out past MPBR is immoral.
Military snipers rationalize that a missed shot can be repeated. Sometimes at great cost, yes. But all in a day’s work.
Hunters have to deal with wounded animals.
Not advised.
 
Northern Shooter said:
It looks like only the 338 Lapua outperforms the 300 PRC at long range. When comparing 300 PRC to 338 WM, the 300 is outperforming it at extended ranges and the 7 PRC outperforms the 300 PRC somewhere between 800-900M. I also threw in the 6.5 PRC for reference.

For reference - Cartridge - Energy (ft-lbs)/Velocity (fps) at 500m - Energy (ft-lbs)/Velocity (fps) at 1000m.

338 LM 285gr - 3,080 / 2,206 - 1,907 / 1,736

7mm PRC 180gr - 2,317 / 2,407 - 1,454 / 1907

300 PRC 225gr - 2,453 / 2,267 - 1,407 / 1,716

338 WM 250gr - 2,319 / 2,044 - 1,161 / 1,466

6.5 PRC 140gr - 1,597 / 2,267 - 839 / 1,643
Click to expand...

Based on that info, size of game and energy at 500m I would go 7 PRC.

I read once online that an elk needs 1500 ft-lb of energy (obviously this is all dependent on bullet impact location and construction.) so you are pushing it at 500M with the 6.5 which I would go for the 7 PRC at that point. Less powder and more standard actions can fit it. (I say this because you cant really run a 300 PRC in a Tikka Action and yes I am a Tikka Fan :) .)

The downside will be components.

B
 
Northern Shooter said:
Haha that just sounds funny to me without context but I guess 1000m is where a lot of ELR shooters consider to be the START of long range shooting.

From what reading ive done it sounds like then 7mm's(.284) have higher BCs and sectional densities than most .30s so they should be carrying their energy out more efficiently than the larger 30s.

Other than producing the larger diameter hole, what advantages do .30 cals have over 7mm at long range? I'm guessing ammo/components may be cheaper and easier to source than 7mm. I would also guess that .30 are carrying more energy downrange but that doesn't appear to be the case.
Click to expand...

Actually for long range shooting the start by many is considered to be a mile +.

1,000m is nothing. You can get there with a center-fire .22 no problem.
 
Northern Shooter said:
Haha that just sounds funny to me without context but I guess 1000m is where a lot of ELR shooters consider to be the START of long range shooting.

From what reading ive done it sounds like then 7mm's(.284) have higher BCs and sectional densities than most .30s so they should be carrying their energy out more efficiently than the larger 30s.

Other than producing the larger diameter hole, what advantages do .30 cals have over 7mm at long range? I'm guessing ammo/components may be cheaper and easier to source than 7mm. I would also guess that .30 are carrying more energy downrange but that doesn't appear to be the case.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked the 7mm's but something like a .30 cal 220gr AMAX or whatever the modern version is called, has a hellishly high BC. However it takes a large case to drive such a bullet to serious velocities.

The conundrum for long range hunting is that it takes a lot of practice to know where the bullet is gonna land ... but practicing with a large caliber, heavy recoiling rifle is no fun for anyone, and it can get spendy right quick. Something like a 243 or a 6.5 is a good way to get the practice without getting the crap kicked out of you.
 
Northern Shooter said:
What I'm trying to decipher is where one shines over the other and if the increased cost is worth it stepping up to one of the .30 or .338s over a 7mm.

1. The 7s appear to have the highest BCs and higher sectional densities when comparing equally weighted projectile classes.

What advantages do the .30s and .338s have over the 7's given the above information?
Click to expand...

The range of offerings and quality of match grade bullets is the highest in .30 caliber. There are way fewer choices in 7mm.
 
75 Devil Dog said:
Long range hunting, AKA sniping, is immoral. Reaching out past MPBR is immoral.
Military snipers rationalize that a missed shot can be repeated. Sometimes at great cost, yes. But all in a day’s work.
Hunters have to deal with wounded animals.
Not advised.
Click to expand...

Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean others cannot. :(

Pushing your morals on others is .... IMMORAL.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean others cannot. :(

Pushing your morals on others is .... IMMORAL.
Click to expand...

I've seen several people make this argument now that long range hunting is "unethical" or "doesn't count as hunting" which I really don't understand, it's just another form of hunting. Some people seem to believe you can only call it hunting if you are able to call in/stalk within 200m of the game.

If a hunter has the right equipment, an appropriate cartridge and has put in the required range time to perfect making those shots at further distances, I don't see how that's an issue.

The nature of hunting many game species, especially in mountainous terrain, is taking those longer shots as that's the only opportunity that will be presented. I'm comfortable hunting up to 400m currently but that's stretching the capabilities of my current cartridges and optics. What I'm looking to do now is extend that range and become proficient in the 400-600m range.

I'm looking into cartridges that are more than capable of taking game at much longer distances (based on the numbers). Even though I won't be hunting 1000m+, I would like to utilize a cartridge that is more than sufficient at say 600m so that dead is dead, and minimal tracking is required.

I wouldn't be taking a 600m shot on elk/moose with a 6.5/.308 because I believe the margins would be too slim and the chance of error too great. I would feel more confident using one of the magnum or PRC options to never feel under-gunned at those ranges.
 
bdb.hunting said:
Based on that info, size of game and energy at 500m I would go 7 PRC.

I read once online that an elk needs 1500 ft-lb of energy (obviously this is all dependent on bullet impact location and construction.) so you are pushing it at 500M with the 6.5 which I would go for the 7 PRC at that point. Less powder and more standard actions can fit it. (I say this because you cant really run a 300 PRC in a Tikka Action and yes I am a Tikka Fan :) .)

The downside will be components.

B
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It's also important for the bullet to impact at a velocity which will still initiate expansion. Most manufacturers are listing their velocity ranges. If the bullet hits within the window it should expand reliably, and if it has enough kinetic energy it should be able to displace tissue and create a long would channel. Getting those two aspects to overlap for as long as possible gives you a ton of flexibility! High BC helps the bullet get there.
 
75 Devil Dog said:
Long range hunting, AKA sniping, is immoral. Reaching out past MPBR is immoral.
Military snipers rationalize that a missed shot can be repeated. Sometimes at great cost, yes. But all in a day’s work.
Hunters have to deal with wounded animals.
Not advised.
Click to expand...

LMFAO

A missed shot by sniper means he has to take a 2nd shot. That GREATLY increases the likelihood that he gets detected.

Hunters have to worry about killing the game. Snipers have to worry about NOT getting killed. Hard to compare the two IMO.


OP I like less recoil, so I prefer 7mm. Federal Premium with a 155gr Terminal Ascent bullet in 28 Nosler is still going 2400fps at 500m, which should keep it above 2100fps out to 700.
 
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