I've always been told +/- 2000 FPS for expansion, is that still the general range for most hunting bullets or are they performing at lower velocities now?
.284 vs .30 vs .338 for long range hunting?
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
I've always been told +/- 2000 FPS for expansion, is that still the general range for most hunting bullets or are they performing at lower velocities now?
naktabar72
Regular
- Location
- Posted to #### Hole QC
7mm Rem Mag with 162 eldx
All depends on the bullet. Most manufacturers list the velocity required - All Nosler hunting bullets call for at least 1800fps for instance. That is, with the exception of the Accubond Long Range, they claim that'll open down to 1300fps.
https://www.nosler.com/products/bullets/product-line/accubondr-long-range.html
I'm one of those people who just seem to have terrible luck, so I try to stay at least 100-150fps above the manufacturers stated lower limit. I put too much time and money into this to play right at the limits of what the manufacturer calls for.
- Location
- Saskatoon Saskatchewan
This is what I'm currently using when I want to go long. Luckily my 7mm also likes a load with monos for when the shots are shorter distance and I don't have to dial until 400 yards or so.
This would be indicative of my experience as well, AB-LR bullets seem to be very prone to over-expansion at high impact velocity. Regular Accubonds are just sweet.
You planning on using a brake, and how much are you going to shoot at 1K?
Bipod or a front rest?
All these things need to be considered, especially the brake.
Once you put a brake on a rifle the sky is the limit.
Without one, a 280 Remington, 308, 6.5 whatever, they will all do well .
it is not hard t all to keep within 2MOA at 1K, even 1MOA is quite doable for most guys who shoot ten rounds or so unbraked, off a Bipod wot a a 30'06 sized case and a bullet of .264, .280, or 30.
Heck even a little .223 Rem or a 6mmBR can do it no worries with the right barrel..
Cat
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
300wm.....goes to longer range with more energy than 7. Perhaps the 7's will pass 30, but further out than I would shoot at game. Range finders and optics able to dial way out make many calibers and bores capable of punching paper, way out there. But then how little energy do you need to punch paper.
If we're going to use the baseline of impact 2000 FPS and 1,500 ft-lbs , the effective big game range would be the following.
7MM PRC (180gr) - 900m
300 PRC (225GR) - Just under 900m
300 WM (180gr) - Just under 700m
6.5 PRC (140gr) - 550M
Having said that each of these cartridges will produce either the minimum energy or velocity well beyond these distances so with modern bullet design some of these could be stretched if we're accepted 1800FPS impact velocity or slightly less than 1500 ft-lb impact energy.
- Location
- Fraser Valley, B.C.
This is some good info! I don’t plan to hunt past 4/500 ever so my 6.5 PRC with the right load is perfect for my needs!
That being said that 7PRC has great numbers and would fit in a Tikka Action -_- may have to keep my eyes open when guys start selling barrels ��
B
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
While I am not a long range shooter, hunting I rarely shoot over 100 yards and prefer 50yards but as far as “immoral” goes, that would depend on the shooters ability to judge the distance (a range finder is a must) and ability to hit where they want at those ranges. Shooting those ranges for someone that has practiced those ranges, knows how to hit at those ranges consistently and has a two point solid rest for the shot is less immoral that the guy that chasing the game on a pickup, shooting from the window of the truck or go afield unable to consistently hit an ice cream pail at 50 yards. The biggest problem with long range hunting is that when (not if) you wound it, when it has an 800 yard head start and at that distance it can be difficult to nail down exactly where they were standing when you shot, the chance or retrieving that wounded animal is severely reduced compared to a hit at 100 yards.
I consider time of flight to by the most important thing concerning a clean kill not the distance in a hunting situation, all things like shooter ability taken into consideration.
In Match shooting my discipline does not shoot past 1K, but then , we do it with sling and irons
Cat
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
When you start comparing apples to apples in terms of BCs the 7 tends to be a hair flatter and carry a hair more energy than 30s. With the 175gr LRAB in the 7 Remington and the 210 LRAB in the 300 the BCs are about as close as you can find for comparison sake. They also start out darn near dead even in muzzle velocity (according to Nosler) which translates to a whopping 6 extra foot pounds at a grand out of the 300. With about 100 yard zero the 7 is 1.75 incles flatter but in a full-value 20mph crosswind the 7 deflects 1.75" more at a grand. Does that matter when you're dialing? Not if we're to believe all the BS that 6.5 CM fans spew about.
But where the 7, apparently, beats the 300 is recoil. Using the two loads from Nosler that I used above, and a theoretical 12lb rifle, I punched the numbers into a recoil calculator. Surprisingly, the 7 recoils just under 17 ft lbs and the 300 recoils at a smidge over 25 ft lbs...pretty much half again as much! I guess that's the difference in 35 grains more bullet and 16gr more powder.
So without actually shooting this theoretical rifle, it appears that it would be a lot more pleasant to shoot in a 7 than a 300. That being said, our 12lb 300 is only going to recoil a touch more than a 9lb 30-06 with 180gr Partitions which is a pretty docile load by gun nut standards. Other than that, it doesn't appear to make a damned bit of difference.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Sssshhhhhhh...grownups are talking...
Bigger bullets are much easier to see impacts from. The “6.5 to a mile” crew gloss over this important fact, usually pretending that budget isn’t the driving factor in their choice. I think that you should give up long range obsession or go with a big 30 or 338. With a long heavy barrel and a brake the recoil is not significant. Get ready to spend $$$ to actually do it effectively though. 300 Norma Mag and 245 or 250 gr bullets by the thousand. Slow powder by the keg. To play around, go 300PRC like I did. It performs the same as a custom throated 300WM with a 3.850 magazine. Shoot 225-230 gr bullets. It still costs a lot, especially because most factory barrels just are not precise enough to scratch that itch.
Yeah I;m looking to hit with a little more authority than the 6.5's so I think 300PRC is the way to go. Looks like you gotta pay to play with the 30cals.
$4/round seems about the average for factory ammo.
Might want to look at the 338 Norma Mag.
Very interesting for the long range shooting...being selected by snipers now over the 338 Lapua. There is also the 300 Norma Magnum, but for long range work, they are selecting the 338 over the 300.
I have shot the 338 Lapua in a lightweight custom hunting rifle. Recoil was not bad from field shooting positions.
Having read up on the 338 Norma...should I ever feel compelled for another 338 Magnum...I might seriously look at this cartridge.
Very interesting for the long range shooting...being selected by snipers now over the 338 Lapua. There is also the 300 Norma Magnum, but for long range work, they are selecting the 338 over the 300.
I have shot the 338 Lapua in a lightweight custom hunting rifle. Recoil was not bad from field shooting positions.
Having read up on the 338 Norma...should I ever feel compelled for another 338 Magnum...I might seriously look at this cartridge.
Agree. The 7 mags are the easiest LR cartridges to use. - dan
