Historic Hunts

a horseback on the ne bc or yukon is a thing that came back a few times and still doable but i have no idea what will the cost of one for 21 or 28 days in a multi species better than many thing and hunts available those days.

my freighter canoe is giving me some independance there anyway ...
 
a horseback on the ne bc or yukon is a thing that came back a few times and still doable but i have no idea what will the cost of one for 21 or 28 days in a multi species better than many thing and hunts available those days.

my freighter canoe is giving me some independance there anyway ...

When I worked out of Fort St John in the mid-90's, Darwin and Angie Watson would fly a few of us and some kids with FSJ Big Brothers/Big Sisters into Christina Falls for a couple of nights, while the wranglers were getting the camps prepped for the season. Trip of a lifetime for the kids... horseback rides, hiking, campfires. I don't recall how much the incoming hunters (mostly Americans) would pay for their horseback hunt back then but it certainly wasn't cheap.
 
I honestly don’t need to kill anything that isn’t for the freezer anymore, and in fact have tired of the killing though I know the role it plays in conservation in Africa. I’ve just had enough personally, the kill was always my least favourite part of those trips, for it was an end, and generally felt like it.

As such, my interest would be walking in Zimbabwe again, for weeks with no discernible objective but to see, photograph, and live. Probably find the meaning of it all while watching a sunrise with a ####ty coffee that never tasted so good. Anything I hunted would be small antelope or sand grouse for the pot. Rifle one I made myself, chambering boring.

Man, you sure have changed your attitude over the years. I remember you once were a strong advocate for hunting in Africa and have taken your far share of game over there. Interesting to see the evolution as you grow older.
 
For sure. Hunting as a business definitely changed how I see it. I’m all for African hunting as it definitely puts a value on wildlife there and maintains habitat, as otherwise they don’t value it there. Just as we don’t value habitat here in the face of mineral extraction, farming, logging, commercial fishing etc. Unfortunately the model here will never allow outdoor sports to trump mines, logging and fisheries, the dollars aren’t even close to comparable.

Nobody here is interested in hearing it, but wildlife right now is collapsing worldwide at a pace not seen since the mass extinctions, on the level of the end of the dinosaurs. You get branded a fear monger or loonie when you bring it up. We just live a blink as humans and don’t see the scale, and many measure wildlife population health with what they know and hunt; deer, elk, black bear, etc that adapt well to human presence and modification of the land. Those species are what’s left after habitat is already heavily changed.

Grizzlies lived across Canada in recent history including Ontario and Quebec, just not in any of our lifetimes. And they were still in Texas and Mexico in the 20th century. California has the grizzly as its flag, and not a single one is left alive in the wild in the state. I read a great quote from a prominent bear biologist, below. It’s exceedingly accurate, we envision Grizzlies, wolverines, and Caribou as creatures of the deep wilderness. The deep wilderness used to be everywhere, and now is quite simply the places we haven’t overrun or modified.

I pick grizzlies as an example solely because they’re what I know and hunted for a living, but any keystone species can be the example with the exceptions of the species that benefit from our modifications of habitat into farmland, logging blocks, etc. So while I don’t blame hunting, and can definitely see its benefits where well managed, I just no longer feel the need to make the kill myself unless I’m directly feeding the family with it. There’s a reason all the greatest hunting trophies are from the past, and that everywhere our species have gone mass extinctions followed (mammoths, bison, wolves in the lower 48… grizzlies).

In earth timelines, a hundred thousand years is a #### all. Our species as we’d recognize it has been alive for less than 1/50,0000th of the history of life. The last 500 years doesn’t even show up on a graph. And yet in it, we’ve lost half the vertebrate life by volume this planet holds. And the pace has quickened astronomically in the last 100 years, and even more the last 50. I value hunting for the connection it gives me to the wilderness and would rather use it to be a part of that than to collect trophies at this point. I don’t vilify those who want to collect trophies, lord knows I did lots, I just lost the taste for it and would rather shoot the camera, pack the rifle.

That’s enough of a tangent for now, and enough to brand me even further a loonie in the eyes of most here. ;)

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I think you might be surprised about how people feel

I would imagine most on here do not engage in any trophy hunting in the sense of not consuming the animals or travelling internationally to hunt. Many would even be shocked by this concept

Anyways feel free to make biltong from your imaginary mammoth and feed your family though

And remember:

Don’t forget the point is to have fun
 
It would have to be one of those major horse back expeditions in Northern BC back in the 30’s or 40’s. Hunt game in untouched wilderness that hasn’t seen man before. I would use an old 1895 with a fine bead in 303 Brit. In the end we would come out with trophy’s of sheep, moose, caribou, grizzly and goat. Of course we would need camp meat so there would be lots of shooting. I can imagine drifting off to sleep in a wall tent next to the wood stove. With the first rays of light I would poke my head out and see a band of big rams on a nearby ridge. Oh one can dream.

Man, that sounds just about perfect! I'll trade your Grizzly for Elk and I'd love to do it all with the Win 94 30-30 SRC that I currently have. Was built in 1927 sonic would be period correct.
 
Suppose you’re right there… and suppose what I mean is most don’t feel our planet and species are hurtling forward in a mass extinction, denying it rather has become quite a popular cause for many to indicate they’re of sound mind and level thinking. Was always interesting talking to a Texan or Californian grizzly client, and the Texans often didn’t know they used to have them, or the last one was shot in Texas in the 1900s.

It’s an uncomfortable thought, and when it’s brought up despite insurmountable evidence it’s typically branded as hysteria. We just think it’s normal progression grandpa used to hunt moose and bear close to the family farm and they’re not found within a couple hours anymore. Same could be said of jaguars or grizzlies in Texas. We don’t seem phased by the changes.

And thanks for graciously handling the temporary curve in the thread against the intended message.
 
I enjoy when thoughtful people take discussions on a tangent. Makes the discussion more interesting. And I also agree with your points Ardent.
 
Suppose you’re right there… and suppose what I mean is most don’t feel our planet and species are hurtling forward in a mass extinction, denying it rather has become quite a popular cause for many to indicate they’re of sound mind and level thinking. Was always interesting talking to a Texan or Californian grizzly client, and the Texans often didn’t know they used to have them, or the last one was shot in Texas in the 1900s.

It’s an uncomfortable thought, and when it’s brought up despite insurmountable evidence it’s typically branded as hysteria. We just think it’s normal progression grandpa used to hunt moose and bear close to the family farm and they’re not found within a couple hours anymore. Same could be said of jaguars or grizzlies in Texas. We don’t seem phased by the changes.

And thanks for graciously handling the temporary curve in the thread against the intended message.

predators and other big mammals has been in competition with human settlement since men has been present on earth.

those conflicts have always created the issues of all continents that solved the man. man first. now that in many countries in europe people are learning back to deal with bear and wolves ...

angus you have have been in zimbabwe and you have certainly seen the damages done on any fields raised by the man and the outcome for those trying to fight elephants with catche snare or poison ...

never an easy answer.

luckily where i live now we still have some healthy population of bison grizzlies and wolves but for how long ... as the top notch predators are taking their toll on moose and caribou and of course less given to the hunters ...

your kids will have great time in front of them.
 
I enjoy when thoughtful people take discussions on a tangent. Makes the discussion more interesting. And I also agree with your points Ardent.

Appreciate that, and also appreciate this thread is about fun and the love of hunting and imagination.

My growing concern buds from a love of the wilderness and hunting. Which is what threads like this are ultimately about.
 
And thanks for graciously handling the temporary curve in the thread against the intended message.

Tangents are some of the most enjoyable parts of the cabin fever threads. I’m surprised we haven’t entered into a discussion on short faced bear defence

As we enter the “ homogocene” biodiversity disappears; and the columbian exchange and human interference render landscapes more similar across the world. Climate change and unfettered resource development seem to be winning some days.

I sometimes think in a few hundred years the only things to hunt in north America will be rock doves, coyotes, feral hogs and the occasional whitetail. Fishing for carp and snakehead

You aren’t the only one prone to flights of fancy; driving between hh and John I would often think about McKenzie’s journey; replace them white tails in the low lying spots (a lot of it under water now :( ) with bison. Most would not believe it; but the historical and archaeological record confirm it.

It would be hard to imagine prairies without prairie chickens, bison and Grizzlies 200 years ago; now it’s hard to imagine them with them when you look out at all the canola.

Nostalgia for a time you never lived in is a weird sensation. I always wonder if some day I will tell my grandkids I used to see herds of woodland caribou north of nation lakes and hunt moose, elk, bear and deer with over the counter tags in what is now a lake in del rio and they will think the old man is spinning tales again
 
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Yep, we definitely will. I’ve already worked amongst a herd that are officially gone now, that’s the end of a long genetic line that would consider the arrival of Columbus last week. Where I outfitted is loaded with a lot of things, but Caribou are at the Yeti phase there now. Find a track and it’s something you share photos of and people can hardly believe still can be out there, despite there being a “Caribou Crk” close on the map.

I sadly know when I’m an old man I’ll tell the grandkids we’d see a dozen grizz on a good day in one stretch of river. It’s the salmon collapse, logging, mining exploration and hydro generating for aluminum smelting that’s the writing on the wall for them, rather than the hunting. The animals can handle some morbidity from hunting, they can’t handle habitat and food source “changes” (destruction). And once hunting is stacked on all the changes, it sadly can easily become a negative.
 
I’d suggest that modern managed* sport hunting is not especially bad for most species. Past market hunting? Paleolithic overkill? Different story. The other stuff you mentioned? Absolutely catastrophic; but people want 3 dollar cans of salmon, electronics and cedar siding

People look back on passenger pigeon extinction, pelagic whaling and sealing/ sea otter hunting in the pacific and commercial seal and polar bear hunting and think how could people do that? Meanwhile they’re on their way to pick up some farmed salmon and a bag of plastic forks.


I truly regret never hunting caribou when I lived in BC. But at some point you feel like Teddy Roosevelt travelling for days to shoot a lone bison. Makes me more emotional than I would admit in rough company.

Guess I’m just a commie pussy though. I saw most of those caribou’s from the air going to facilitate the logging of their intact habitat in an area devastated by beetle kill. Not something I’m interested in doing anymore; some of us kill for a living in a very different way


*well managed
 
Thanks for sharing this. I love seeing vintage hunts. The old guns & equipment
I find very fasinating. I hunt with vintage guns still. This coming fall's deer hunt
will be a .25-35 Win. in a Win. Carbine made in 1946.
 
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