What load is that? My old load data is long gone, I was thinking for loading my Hornady 160 grainers with the book load for 165gr RN with 27gr of H335, given its a fast powder and that seems to be the ticket for these guns, I'll see how it does.
Carcano shooting
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What load is that? My old load data is long gone, I was thinking for loading my Hornady 160 grainers with the book load for 165gr RN with 27gr of H335, given its a fast powder and that seems to be the ticket for these guns, I'll see how it does.
I'll take a look back, my varget I'd like to save for the precision rigs, I'll give the h335 or BLC2 a whirl as I have an abundance of both and report back
Hornady now calls it Obsolete Reloading Data
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/obsolete-data/6-5-x-52mm-carcano.pdf
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/obsolete-data/6-5-x-52mm-carcano.pdf
They'll only fill the case about half way with max loads. You may need to insert a filler, such as Dacron, on top of the column.
Normally I'd agree, but Hornady was SUPER clear in their manual the loads should not be deviated from AT ALL. Anecdotally they blew up a fair few carcanos developing loads for their thick-jacket .268 bullet and they published at the time that the safety margin for this bullet was very narrow.
Well the reloading came to a standstill about 10 cases in, I had run out of case lube before I started, So I decided to use my Hornady one shot spray lube that I normally reserve for straight wall pistol cases., It was taking a little more effort but still working. Until this case became stuck in the die. I have the stuck case remover but unfortunately the decapper is stuck inside the case neck not allowing me to use the stuck case removed tool.
Your going to have to tap the decapper out. Hold the die I a vice upside down. Find a small punch and tap the pin back through the flash hole. Keep pushing it out until it’s past the case web. I might have experienced this a couple times. Once past the web you can drill and tap.
Just looked at your die better, it’s a Lee. Keep it in the press. Undo the decapping nut and hit that decap rod with a hammer. Takes a few hits. The Lee rods are made to do this. Once out you can the case apart and pull the rod out.
Just looked at your die better, it’s a Lee. Keep it in the press. Undo the decapping nut and hit that decap rod with a hammer. Takes a few hits. The Lee rods are made to do this. Once out you can the case apart and pull the rod out.
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I agree with them for the most part, but I have personally shot hundreds of resized .277 to .270 diameter bullets out of several different Carcano carbines and rifles without issues of any sort. I even shot a couple with very large bores with full size .277 diameter bullets.
Bore diameter definitely has a lot to do with it of course and I know you understand the significance of this.
I only shot the oversize bullets in rifles with over diameter bores and worked up the loads from the old Hornady (1967) manual and the Lyman #45 manual.
Powder choices back in the day were fast, faster and much faster. That changed a bit in the mid thirties and there were many very significant changes for slower burning powders becoming avail able by the beginning of WW2.
For my prestent rifle I have loaded three different types of bullets.
Cupronickle/exposed lead base, Swede, 6.5x160 grain round nose, which surprisingly has a slightly larger base diameter of .2635 for appx one quarter of the bullet length and .262 from there to the beginning of the round nose.
Copper jacket, esposed lead base, spitzer boat tail 6.5x140 grain with a .2635 bearing surface diameter, used for the last issued Swede loads
Copper jacket cup and core Hornady .2675 diameter x 160 grain SPRN flat base from their last production run.
I've loaded all of these over the same charge of 4320 that I used back when I shot the 6.5x51 Carcano a few decades back. 35.0 grains over CCI250 primers.
This load doesn't fill the case as much as I like either but enough to get fairly consistent velocities and reasonable accuracy.
I have never noticed a small dab of Dacron filler, almost to light to weigh, making any pressure differences.
Your experience may be different from my own.
PO Ackley did blow up tests on the M91 Carcano actions and found them to be very strong. These actions have been rebarreled for everything from the 257Roberts to the 8x57IS and everything in between.
I picked up my first Carcano rifles for less than $5 each, because of the hype that the actions were weak.
I can see Hornady testing loads to the point of destroying a few such rifles. I would do the same if I were in their legal position.
I think it's worth finding my post on these earlier in this thread. I used the minimum varget load from the lee data and nearly blew up a carcano - extreme over pressure signs. I too photos. It was overstretched the primer pocket and casing had to be knocked out with a brass rod. First round was fine. Second identical round nearly detonated.
Diameter is not the issue with these it's a double thickness copper jacket that makes it an odd duck.
YMMV, but I would stick to middle of the road Hornaday loads of you shoot these bullets.
Diameter is not the issue with these it's a double thickness copper jacket that makes it an odd duck.
YMMV, but I would stick to middle of the road Hornaday loads of you shoot these bullets.
The Italian reloader posted earlier in this thread seemed to indicate faster powder was the trick, and he was loading with 160gr hornadys, hence my decision for 335/blc2
Yeah, your post has me thinking about pulling the bullets on those rounds.
Strange though about double thickness copper jackets, which would definitely make a difference. I don't believe the Italians loaded steel core bullets at any time. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
My load is appx 10% below max listed in my manuals for 160 grain bullets.
Maybe the Varget was the problem??? It's slower burning and has a longer pressure curve and maybe, with a less than ideal case fill?????????
Thanx for your replies. I wil let come back here to report on how well my handloads shoot with IMR4320.
This is from the Hornady web site, which does indicate a much lower charge of powder for their 160 grain bullets of .267 diameter
6.5 X 52mm Carcano
Rifle: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M41
Barrel: . . . . . . . . 27", 1 in 7.9" Twist
Case: . . . . . . . . . . . . Privi Partizan
Primer: . . . . . . . . .Winchester WLR
Bullet Diameter: . . . . . 0.264 – 0.267"
Maximum COL: . . . . . . . . . . 3.012"
Max. Case Length: . . . . . . . . 2.067"
Case Trim Length: . . . . . . . . .2.055"
Carcano rifles have become popular collector firearms again, recent imports
and the availability of accurate information, ammunition and components have
helped to make it more attractive. The first of the 6.5 mm military cartridges to
appear was near the end of the 19th century. The Carcano’s history has been
plagued by a great deal of negative press and criticism, mainly the result of
misinformation and lack of understanding of the design.
The Carcano’s action design is by no means weak, tests performed by P.O.
Ackley and several others were unable to cause action failure. However, surplus
rifles should all be thoroughly inspected by a competent gunsmith before firing.
Carcano rifles are built with a .257" bore and .268" grooves. This was done to
extend barrel life. The rifles are, by virtue of this, not generally accurate with
conventional .264" 6.5 mm bullets. Hornady now produces a .267" 160 grain
Round Nose bullet designed specifically for Carcano rifles. We have achieved
excellent accuracy with this bullet and the loads listed here, our best results
came from H 414 and WIN 760.
Historically, Norma has been the only source for Boxer primed Carcano
cartridge cases, these cases have an extractor groove that is too narrow and
does not function properly in the stripper clip and eject with difficulty. Cases
recently made available by Privi Partizan have the proper groove dimension and
functioned flawlessly in our test rifle.
Absolutely do not deviate from the components or loads shown for the
0.267" bullet. Dangerously high pressures may result. It is imperative the
shooter knows the diameter of his bore and the diameter of the projectile
he is loading.
I too listened to the Italian guy and have settled on H4895 with Standard primers, as it ticks off three boxes: is on the fast side, and is extruded, so is more bulky than spherical and tends to ignite more readily than spherical under all conditions.
Of note, the data showed a couple posts up is for an m41 with standard rifling. The issues with Hornaday thick jacket .268's seems confined to prograssive twist rifles where the increasing twist rate is affected by a more unyielding copper jacket.
This is not pointed at you specifically, but is a general comment.
Maybe not a big deal to some and I know it's entered "Hornady Carcano Bullet (#2645) Folklore" as a fact so will live on, but if you look at Post #154, the jacket of #2645 is actually very close to 50% thicker than the Hornady #2640, not 100% (double).
Is that significant? - I don't know, but this folklore has as its source a number of assumptions:
1. the "problem" with this bullet is its thick jacket. The "logic" here is the jacket is thicker and therefore that's the reason. I'd agree that it might be a contributing factor, along with the bullet's large diameter, and long bearing surface, and the progressive rifling, but you'd need to do extensive testing in the same rifle to isolate the combinations of factors that are causing the known repeatable problem of over-pressure; and
2. the jacket is "thick" - twice as thick as "normal". Is it twice as thick as "normal"? What's normal? People shoot solid copper bullets. It's 50% thicker on average than the #2640. Is #2640 thinner, the same or thicker than "normal"?
Fair points Andy. Though I think most solids are brass and not long smooth groove diameter bullets in progressive rifling guns.
We do know from Hornaday themselves that they increasd jacket thickness from what they considered standard when designing the bullet to prevent jacket tearing in the progressive twist rifles, and we do have one measurement from you that supports that view.
From a physics perspective, a bullet with increased bore resistance will cause pressures to go up. We also know that progressive rifling continually smears the rifling imprint on the bullet going down the bore, increasing friction.
I consider the diameter and jacket to be the most likely culprits of pressure increases and that a fast powder charge of sufficient juice lessens the chance the bullet will slow enough in the bore to spike pressures, but I have not tested it in a lab. You would need cup sensors along the bore in a lab setting to say definitively what happens when these are fired in various guns.
We do know from Hornaday themselves that they increasd jacket thickness from what they considered standard when designing the bullet to prevent jacket tearing in the progressive twist rifles, and we do have one measurement from you that supports that view.
From a physics perspective, a bullet with increased bore resistance will cause pressures to go up. We also know that progressive rifling continually smears the rifling imprint on the bullet going down the bore, increasing friction.
I consider the diameter and jacket to be the most likely culprits of pressure increases and that a fast powder charge of sufficient juice lessens the chance the bullet will slow enough in the bore to spike pressures, but I have not tested it in a lab. You would need cup sensors along the bore in a lab setting to say definitively what happens when these are fired in various guns.
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Is the .268 bullet .268 the whole length? If so that is likely the problem which requires the thick jacket as it would have so much bearing surface engaged at once that it would start to be effected by the rifling.
What bullet and how many grains of H4895 are you using?
I'm using the same powder and trying the ppu .268 bullets
Also loaded some of the .264 160 gr Hornadys to try
I want to find a decent load without too much experimenting as I only have 3/4 of a pound of H4895 left and i also use it to load for a Hakim and an ag42
Have a few pounds of 4064 left so may try some of that too. haven't seen any H4895 for sale in a long time and I thought i had more of it then i did
What bullet and how many grains of H4895 are you using?
I'm using the same powder and trying the ppu .268 bullets
Also loaded some of the .264 160 gr Hornadys to try
I want to find a decent load without too much experimenting as I only have 3/4 of a pound of H4895 left and i also use it to load for a Hakim and an ag42
Have a few pounds of 4064 left so may try some of that too. haven't seen any H4895 for sale in a long time and I thought i had more of it then i did
The ppu .267" fmjs shot well for me with 28gn of h4895.
