An old story. If it’s a good gun and decent value you won’t be the only one to figure this out. You snooze, you lose. And the really good ones move quickly, there is always people looking for the best. GGN is a great place to find special guns, there are lots of people on here with fine guns and they all change hands at some time. Do a well written WTB posting under Shotguns and bump it weekly, you might be surprised what shows up.
A good British SxS - where to buy?
- Thread starter zeiesfirdaus
- Start date
your advice is very sound Ashcroft, and I will surely do the needful.
Actually, I picked that one up yesterday ;-)...HA HA
The only thing, it will be a few weeks (or months :-( ) before I get it in my hands ...I negotiated a full service of the gun. But Claudio / Steve are so busy...
I do want a good Purdey / H&H (with a rich history) tho...will get there one day...sigh
Looking forward to another year !
And re that Beesley it looks like someone just pulled the trigger on it.
I shouldered that gun at Epps once a few years back, it lined-up nicely and hopefully makes a good shooter
Somebody mentioned to me once that the Army and Navy they have is worth a hard look
This may or may not have registered / would be hard to recall given you held it a few years back…
The top rib has the following engraved
“Henry Hill of Jesse Hill, Ash Tree Rd., Stirchley, B’irm”
Which is the address of Jesse Hill Gunsmith (established in 1921). I suspect some work was done on this gun by this gunsmith back in the days. Was this common practice to etch/engrave like so?
Nice shop BTW
https://losgi.com/jesse-hill-gun-makers
&
https://www.westleyrichards.com/theexplora/jesse-hill-gunmakers-photography-bybrett/
&
https://www.westleyrichards.com/the...eneration-gunmaker-haydn-hill-by-vic-venters/
"A cache of correspondence dating from the 1920s through the ’70s and pages from a ledger book revealed just how many of England’s storied gunmakers had used Haydn’s great great uncle, grandfather and father to make their actions at one time or another: Grant, Lang, Hussey, Harrison & Hussey, Beesley, Jeffrey, Rhodda, Gibbs, Army & Navy, Osbourne, Powell, Holloway, Cogswell & Harrison, and Churchill, among others. There were orders for A&D boxlocks; screw-grips of all grades; sidelocks of conventional, Beesley, and Baker-design; double rifles; pigeon hammerguns; and over/unders."
Now re the Beesley in question
Serial No 1603 out of 2841 Beesleys ever made
It was made for Mr Charles Cobbe in Sept 1899 for a sum of £36.15
The Beesley bible (order book) as they call it had a note “for Birthday, deliver before 10th Sept”
I will have a separate post on Mr Charles Cobbe…
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The reference to Henry Hill on the top rib would be normal practice if Henry Hill had rebarrelled or sleeved this gun. The new rib would be inscribed with the name of the business that did the work.
Neat.
No I don't remember seeing that address on the barrels.
Don't recall it looking sleeved though or having any stampings as such.
What I remember most was how it shouldered and pointed.
I checked out the Grant they have at the same time and found it to be a lot bigger/heavier of a gun by comparison.
Didn't weigh them of course, just the impression....
Well, now you're just going to have to bring out the SXS Classic in June!
No I don't remember seeing that address on the barrels.
Don't recall it looking sleeved though or having any stampings as such.
What I remember most was how it shouldered and pointed.
I checked out the Grant they have at the same time and found it to be a lot bigger/heavier of a gun by comparison.
Didn't weigh them of course, just the impression....
Well, now you're just going to have to bring out the SXS Classic in June!
Def didn't look like sleeved. Of the SxSs I tried; the beesley somehow felt right for me…& I did try the Grant as well, (as that was the other one I was considering as a placeholder for my first SxS ). I do agree, the Grant just was a little boxy (comparatively).
I have this feeling in my gut that I wont have it in my hands before the June Classic…but for sure, I will be bringing it if otherwise.
I think my club is hosting an event that day for national range day
I’d hate to have you miss one Bry.
I spoke to Hyde Hill of Jesse Hill Gunmakers, Ash Tree Rd., Stirchley, B’irm today.
It seems the Gun was rebarreled in 1966 in his shop by his father ...
No other information could be provided re: ownership as Mr Charles Cobbe passed away in 1951
So, took the SxS to Stelios who provided the following report (with photos)
Below is a report of my findings:
-ejection: ok
-Firing pin strikes: ok
-barrels on face: yes
-action to barrels lock up: a little loose. Still bites but minimally.
-barrels and ribs: ring true
-headspace: within specs
-bore condition: both bores have slight pitting in several sections, with the right barrel more than the left. Also at the choke section there is some gouging probably from a rough reaming during production or after production work.
Chamber length: 2 ½”
Bores:
Right: tapers from 0.734” just in front of forcing cones to 0.725” just before the choke. Choke dimension: 0.722” which is approximately I.C., but because of the tapered bores, possibly closer to modified.
Left: tapers from 0.735” just in front of the forcing cones, to 0.725” just before the choke. Choke dimension: .700” which is approximately Full, but because of the tapered bores, possibly closer to extra full.
(Usually, shotgun bores have no taper. Having a tapered bore adds weight to the barrel, but gives a more gradual constriction of the shot column as it moves up the bore, which can give you better patterns. The disadvantage is that you actually have to pattern the gun to determine actual choke concentration. Another disadvantage is that I cannot easily hone out imperfections in the bore, i.e. pitting.
Wall thickness of both bores are well within safe limits.
-There are no dents or bulges in either bores
Forearm:
-release latch freely rotates which is not correct. It should have a small screw that secures the rod from rotating.
-nothing seems broken or missing, but most of the internal parts are rusty and pitted.
-wood seems sound but oil soaked (normal for this age of gun)
Action:
-no major internal parts seems broken or damaged
-Some screw slots are damaged and should be dressed up
-Top lever spring is a little weak, but it is ok to leave it like it is unless the gun pops open during firing
-Trigger guard is slightly bent, and should be straightened
Stock:
-It is well made and properly inletted.
-oil soaked, but normal for the age of the gun
-there are a couple of very minor cracks on the face of the wood/action interface.
-grain structure and flow is good
Overall, this is a very fine and well made side-lock shotgun, in good condition, and is safe to shoot now in its current condition.
Repairs and Restoration
Complete clean, remove pitting in forearm and action, polish, dress damaged screw slots, and lubricate:
Refinish and recheck and repair stock:
Open chambers to 2 ¾”
Install screw into forearm release rod to secure in place
Open left choke to modified
Polish barrels and rust blue
Colour case harden action
P.S. I am not doing the colour case harden or the left choke
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytsqxdfqt8yuger/AADPwdUnUeItPcFhuvg3MLcQa?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nq1r8d8imzuxkhi/AABD0J1H9m08sSkE0a5uchUfa?dl=0
Below is a report of my findings:
-ejection: ok
-Firing pin strikes: ok
-barrels on face: yes
-action to barrels lock up: a little loose. Still bites but minimally.
-barrels and ribs: ring true
-headspace: within specs
-bore condition: both bores have slight pitting in several sections, with the right barrel more than the left. Also at the choke section there is some gouging probably from a rough reaming during production or after production work.
Chamber length: 2 ½”
Bores:
Right: tapers from 0.734” just in front of forcing cones to 0.725” just before the choke. Choke dimension: 0.722” which is approximately I.C., but because of the tapered bores, possibly closer to modified.
Left: tapers from 0.735” just in front of the forcing cones, to 0.725” just before the choke. Choke dimension: .700” which is approximately Full, but because of the tapered bores, possibly closer to extra full.
(Usually, shotgun bores have no taper. Having a tapered bore adds weight to the barrel, but gives a more gradual constriction of the shot column as it moves up the bore, which can give you better patterns. The disadvantage is that you actually have to pattern the gun to determine actual choke concentration. Another disadvantage is that I cannot easily hone out imperfections in the bore, i.e. pitting.
Wall thickness of both bores are well within safe limits.
-There are no dents or bulges in either bores
Forearm:
-release latch freely rotates which is not correct. It should have a small screw that secures the rod from rotating.
-nothing seems broken or missing, but most of the internal parts are rusty and pitted.
-wood seems sound but oil soaked (normal for this age of gun)
Action:
-no major internal parts seems broken or damaged
-Some screw slots are damaged and should be dressed up
-Top lever spring is a little weak, but it is ok to leave it like it is unless the gun pops open during firing
-Trigger guard is slightly bent, and should be straightened
Stock:
-It is well made and properly inletted.
-oil soaked, but normal for the age of the gun
-there are a couple of very minor cracks on the face of the wood/action interface.
-grain structure and flow is good
Overall, this is a very fine and well made side-lock shotgun, in good condition, and is safe to shoot now in its current condition.
Repairs and Restoration
Complete clean, remove pitting in forearm and action, polish, dress damaged screw slots, and lubricate:
Refinish and recheck and repair stock:
Open chambers to 2 ¾”
Install screw into forearm release rod to secure in place
Open left choke to modified
Polish barrels and rust blue
Colour case harden action
P.S. I am not doing the colour case harden or the left choke
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytsqxdfqt8yuger/AADPwdUnUeItPcFhuvg3MLcQa?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nq1r8d8imzuxkhi/AABD0J1H9m08sSkE0a5uchUfa?dl=0
Attachments
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That is a fantastic Beesley. I have a Beesley boxlock I picked up a while back. Not nearly as fine, but still a usable piece. I did a small write up here:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...U-s?p=18360308&highlight=beesley#post18360308
I was able to contact the company Frederick Beesley in the UK who has the original factory paperwork on the guns. I love my Beesley - swings wonderfully and is a joy to carry at 6 lbs 1 oz. I have handled several others since then and I am a big fan of Beesley guns. They are appreciated by those who are in the know. What the order book showed:
Made in 1923
Sold 1 April 1924, for 29£ 10s 0d
Sold to Major MacBrayne
30 inch barrels
Anson and Deeley Boxlock
Looking forward to your completed Beesley!
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...U-s?p=18360308&highlight=beesley#post18360308
I was able to contact the company Frederick Beesley in the UK who has the original factory paperwork on the guns. I love my Beesley - swings wonderfully and is a joy to carry at 6 lbs 1 oz. I have handled several others since then and I am a big fan of Beesley guns. They are appreciated by those who are in the know. What the order book showed:
Made in 1923
Sold 1 April 1924, for 29£ 10s 0d
Sold to Major MacBrayne
30 inch barrels
Anson and Deeley Boxlock
Looking forward to your completed Beesley!
You know of course that Beesley designed and patented the sidelock action that every Purdey has been built on since they acquired the design from Beesley circa 1880. There is a reason the Beesley name is well thought of.
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And Beesley apprenticed under William Moore, one of the great London gunmakers.
Fingers X-ed!!!!
Beautiful
…Yes, I had also called the UK shop and they provided similar details which I have posted in this thread a few pages back…
Yes indeed, this link on heritage and the timeline is very informative:
https://frederickbeesley.co.uk/brand-heritage/
