Black Creek Labs AR180 based rifle SVR2 Siberian approved for Non restricted FRT

Could someone enlighten me, what is up with an obsession of "field servicing"? I mean if a part fails on any gun and you are in a field, you won't fix anything. You won't fix broken extractor, snapped spring, lost screw, cracked stock. What are you going to "field service" exactly?

Are we talking about "field cleaning" here? How many pounds of ammunition you need to bring with you "in a field" to actually go from a clean gun to "totally not working all carbon build up"? Can you even carry that much or you need a vehicle to get you "into the field" with all this ammo, preferable early in a day so you can expend it all and foul your gun before lunch?

I can understand an issue of field disassembly to clean out mud if you drop it in a swamp, but carbon build up to be an issue? Come on now.
 
owlowl said:
Could someone enlighten me, what is up with an obsession of "field servicing"? I mean if a part fails on any gun and you are in a field, you won't fix anything. You won't fix broken extractor, snapped spring, lost screw, cracked stock. What are you going to "field service" exactly?

Are we talking about "field cleaning" here? How many pounds of ammunition you need to bring with you "in a field" to actually go from a clean gun to "totally not working all carbon build up"? Can you even carry that much or you need a vehicle to get you "into the field" with all this ammo, preferable early in a day so you can expend it all and foul your gun before lunch?

I can understand an issue of field disassembly to clean out mud if you drop it in a swamp, but carbon build up to be an issue? Come on now.
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People here seem to be dreaming of operating in a Fallout world. Where they shoot 1500+ rounds every day, and need to clean the gas system while under fire.
For that scenario there are vastly more reliable NR guns still available to us. With fewer moving parts that can fail.

For a fun range plinker, the multi-piece piston 180s should hold up well. I don't see the gas block on the BCL as a deal breaker at all. High temp loctite and using the small end of an allen key to tighten should keep it going indefinitely. For the extra $250 I'd take one over the gen 2 WK all day, just for the 2-piece piston alone.
 
owlowl said:
Could someone enlighten me, what is up with an obsession of "field servicing"? I mean if a part fails on any gun and you are in a field, you won't fix anything. You won't fix broken extractor, snapped spring, lost screw, cracked stock. What are you going to "field service" exactly?

Are we talking about "field cleaning" here? How many pounds of ammunition you need to bring with you "in a field" to actually go from a clean gun to "totally not working all carbon build up"? Can you even carry that much or you need a vehicle to get you "into the field" with all this ammo, preferable early in a day so you can expend it all and foul your gun before lunch?

I can understand an issue of field disassembly to clean out mud if you drop it in a swamp, but carbon build up to be an issue? Come on now.
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I guess ppl are more concerned about having the capability of cleaning the piston without removing the block which is not a rocket science and there exists plenty of proven designs that can be copied. It maybe true for modern 556 that there is no need to clean it within a few thousand rounds, but Siberian is coming with a 7.62 which becomes a big inconvenience for most cases when using corrosive ammo
 
beltfed said:
...while not labour intensive to remove a few components, this area like the threads of components and the fasteners now start to see high milage use with the constant torque and re-torquing wearing out items that should have had a better interface and fastening method from the outset.

Field serviceable does not equate to being able to do it in a hurry, it is a recognition through the design that the rifle will be broken down often into its component pieces, and those parts will be serviced (cleaned) often.
Being able to do it tool-less, with speed, with repeatability (like you can't do it backwards or upside down or the like) are all attributes that are shared by good engineering.
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I've quoted myself as it appears to two missed it...

owlowl said:
Could someone enlighten me, what is up with an obsession of "field servicing"? I mean if a part fails on any gun and you are in a field, you won't fix anything. You won't fix broken extractor, snapped spring, lost screw, cracked stock. What are you going to "field service" exactly?

Are we talking about "field cleaning" here? How many pounds of ammunition you need to bring with you "in a field" to actually go from a clean gun to "totally not working all carbon build up"? Can you even carry that much or you need a vehicle to get you "into the field" with all this ammo, preferable early in a day so you can expend it all and foul your gun before lunch?

I can understand an issue of field disassembly to clean out mud if you drop it in a swamp, but carbon build up to be an issue? Come on now.
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Servicing = Cleaning.

Let me ask you this: Do you have to remove set screws to remove the bolt from a bolt action rifle? The answer is no, that would be dumb and a poor design.

Unholysavage said:
People here seem to be dreaming of operating in a Fallout world. Where they shoot 1500+ rounds every day, and need to clean the gas system while under fire.
For that scenario there are vastly more reliable NR guns still available to us. With fewer moving parts that can fail.

For a fun range plinker, the multi-piece piston 180s should hold up well. I don't see the gas block on the BCL as a deal breaker at all. High temp loctite and using the small end of an allen key to tighten should keep it going indefinitely. For the extra $250 I'd take one over the gen 2 WK all day, just for the 2-piece piston alone.
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Clearly you have never removed and put a fastener back repeatedly - the threads stretch and you will end up replacing the gas block and a multitude of fasteners.
It is a lazy design solution.
 
beltfed said:
I've quoted myself as it appears to two missed it...



Servicing = Cleaning.

Let me ask you this: Do you have to remove set screws to remove the bolt from a bolt action rifle? The answer is no, that would be dumb and a poor design.



Clearly you have never removed and put a fastener back repeatedly - the threads stretch and you will end up replacing the gas block and a multitude of fasteners.
It is a lazy design solution.
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I second this, it is a lazy design like what our gvmt did, banning our toys instead of solving real problems
 
beltfed said:
Let me ask you this: Do you have to remove set screws to remove the bolt from a bolt action rifle? The answer is no, that would be dumb and a poor design.

Clearly you have never removed and put a fastener back repeatedly - the threads stretch and you will end up replacing the gas block and a multitude of fasteners.
It is a lazy design solution.
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That means you are over tightening the fasteners.
I don't like the gas system but if you know you ham fist every small nut and bolt you touch just buy something else or have your firearm serviced by a professional. The design does however make me seriously doubt any MIL/LEO would be interested.

What good is getting the bolt out of a bolt action when you cannot service the firing pin without tools?

 
Unholysavage said:
People here seem to be dreaming of operating in a Fallout world.
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Maybe I'm a bit of touch. But this is BCL gun, design and built. Knowing just a bit of history on the subject it is unreasonable to expect this to be anything by a cheap range toy with a service life of 1-2 years. Did anyone expected an SKS level of reliability out of this thing?
 
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owlowl said:
Maybe I'm a bit of touch. But this is BCL gun, design and built. Knowing just a bit of history on the subject it is unreasonable to expect this to be anything by a cheap range toy with a service life of 1-2 years. Did anyone expected an SKS level of reliability out of this thing?
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Enough talking let's go shoot this thing.
 
I know the manual says to remove the gas block entirely for cleaning after roughly 1500 rounds, but I noticed there is a gas block regulator screw at the front of the gas block, likely where an adjustable gas valve/regulator could be replaced in the future. If you wanted to half a$$ clean the gas system… Wouldn’t removing this regulator alone, give you decent enough access to the interior of the gas block and front of the piston cylinder?
Enough to spray the interior down with CLP and clean it from the inside without removing the whole gas block? run a brush in there, wipe it down, etc. it would probably clean it 80-90% anyway.

Since everyone’s sharing their opinions on the gas system, here’s mine:
I don’t see the big deal with the gas system cleaning process BCL recommends anyhow. I don’t think this was intended to be a battle rifle getting cleaned in a trench. it’s a semi auto sporting rifle. So a few screws for gas system cleaning doesn’t seem like a deal breaker really, everyone has allen keys at their cleaning bench anyway. This looks like it can be done fairly easily at home with basic tools and anyone who can use a screwdriver can do it. Would it be “nice” if it was tool-less. Sure… but I don’t see why this would be a deal breaker if it’s an otherwise good gun.
On the plus side, the field strip looks easy, which you’ll be doing most often. If the gas system and gun as a whole is reliable and you do not need to worry about it self destructing on you unexpectedly, that’s better for my peace of mind.
 
These guys should have splined the barrel M14 style. Slide on the gas block and secure it with a ball detented nut.

Leave it beyond the handguard an d then you don't need to remove it.
 
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or an opening in the handguard like the ruger piston gun. funny you should mention the m14 though - had to carry a wrench to service the piston, and remove the stock to clean it (and re-zero it after if you wanted any accuracy out of it which is why the national match guys only cleaned it one a year ...). i wonder if the internet existed back then if everyone posted about not buying it unless they could service it with the tip of a bullet if the american (or chinese) government would have listened?
 
the radium king said:
or an opening in the handguard like the ruger piston gun. funny you should mention the m14 though - had to carry a wrench to service the piston, and remove the stock to clean it (and re-zero it after if you wanted any accuracy out of it which is why the national match guys only cleaned it one a year ...). i wonder if the internet existed back then if everyone posted about not buying it unless they could service it with the tip of a bullet if the american (or chinese) government would have listened?
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Yeah, like they have "listened" to Germans, completely ignoring revolutionary introduction of intermediate cartridge. Like they have listened to British with their .280. Like they have ignored that USSR started developing M43. What many armies understood in general in WW1 and completely made their mind in WW2 - full size rifle cartridge can't be married with reliable individual full auto firearm. So everyone wanted to move to intermediate, and commies even did, but US insisted on beating the dead horse, making "new" 7.62x51 as standard for small arms, introducing M14 and essentially forcing independent business like FN making their own versions of small arms for this caliber (FN already had working prototypes for .280 BTW). M14, FN FAL were all dead before they were even introduced. Not sustainable for full auto in small arms, dead in this sense.
Thank god FN was paying attention and while because of US all NATO skipped whole era of reliable, lightweight assault rifles that came with more cartridges per same weight, FN still went with development of small caliber 5.56, though by that time commies also developed their own small caliber - 5.45. But that happened only in 1970x
But I digress from the topic.


Having normal serviceable gas block is not strictly a " military" thing. This is mechanical device that uses the energy of gases and some parts of it require regular maintenance. It's just so happened that militaries all over the world would value such thing and we, as in "sport shooters" also do. Knowing history of firearm development and how we already have perfected small arms sometimes it just feels totally stupid to observe some modern designs. I understand patents, business reasons etc, but hey, there are working solutions easy to manufacture (even commies could do it) from decades ago and there's no reason to make a rifle in our time that requires special tools or unscrewing something to be cleaned and serviced. That goes to Siberian, that goes to Ruger PC. Hell, even plastic-fantastic Kel-Tec RDB needs nothing more than a bullet to be disassembled. Rant is OFF. I applaud all Canadian manufacturers in these hard times but I'm willing to support with my $ only those who would meet my very basic requirements for firearm. Or would listen and make changes.
 
the radium king said:
or an opening in the handguard like the ruger piston gun. funny you should mention the m14 though - had to carry a wrench to service the piston, and remove the stock to clean it (and re-zero it after if you wanted any accuracy out of it which is why the national match guys only cleaned it one a year ...). i wonder if the internet existed back then if everyone posted about not buying it unless they could service it with the tip of a bullet if the american (or chinese) government would have listened?
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Remove the barrelled action from the stock and then use a socket to remove the gas plug (while holding the gas block in place with a special wrench) and properly sized drill bits to clean out the piston. Hell, you'd try a few different pistons cause sometimes the rifle shot better with one piston than another. When you put it all back together you needed to torque the gas plug to the correct torque setting (memory failing me here) and hope you hadn't damaged the bedding and then, yeah, check zero. Too bad they were never tested in battle, haha :rolleyes:
 
Squeaky wheel gets the grease.. .having to remove 2 screws every 1500 rounds isn't a problem for me.
But if enough people ##### about it bcl will address this perceived short coming.
 
Cleaning aside, interested in seeing how the rifle holds up longer term after people have shot enough rounds through them to see if any malfunctions or major failure arise.
 
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