Muzzlebreak...Yes or No???
- Thread starter dawgmaster
- Start date
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
yes.
i have 16.5" rifles and they dont sound anywhere near as loud as a brake... in fact theyre not much louder than a 22" barreled .308.
i have 16.5" rifles and they dont sound anywhere near as loud as a brake... in fact theyre not much louder than a 22" barreled .308.
I think the noise you're hearing is actually the scope whacking you in the head
No the sound of the scope hitting me in the head is a dull..THUD...followed closely by....oh Fuk i did it again,make the 22 scars on my noggin now...
- Location
- Saskatchewan
manbearpig,
I don't get your comment about it being in the smiths best interest to not tell people about them??? If he thinks they make a gun more accurate and therefore builds a customer a rifle with a muzzle brake installed...according to him it'll be more accurate and therefore the customer will be even more satisfied.
moose hunter,
Apparently the Holland muzzle brake is designed for prone shooting...where there is no ports out the bottom, so supposedly less dirt flying than just an actual muzzle and much less muzzle jump!
rem338win,
Enlighten me...you seem like you must have a vast knowledge of this topic, so please explain why it....'MAKES NEARLY NO SCIENTIFIC SENSE"????
I don't get your comment about it being in the smiths best interest to not tell people about them??? If he thinks they make a gun more accurate and therefore builds a customer a rifle with a muzzle brake installed...according to him it'll be more accurate and therefore the customer will be even more satisfied.
moose hunter,
Apparently the Holland muzzle brake is designed for prone shooting...where there is no ports out the bottom, so supposedly less dirt flying than just an actual muzzle and much less muzzle jump!
rem338win,
Enlighten me...you seem like you must have a vast knowledge of this topic, so please explain why it....'MAKES NEARLY NO SCIENTIFIC SENSE"????
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
its just that a lot of that info that he presents as fact seems pretty unsubstantiated, and he seems to think that a fixed muzzle brake can match the function of an adjustable harmonic stabilizer - which is a pretty foolish claim.
when he is making a couple hundred bucks extra off of every custom rifle he sells with a muzzle brake, then it also makes me suspect the real reason he is trying to convince everyone that muzzle brakes are some sortof 'wonder accuracy tool' - an opinion that goes against pretty much everyone elses.
that said, its your money. if you believe the guy and his claim that it will increase accuracy, then by all means go get one. hell if you just want one because it 'looks cool', then go get one. thats all that really matters.
when he is making a couple hundred bucks extra off of every custom rifle he sells with a muzzle brake, then it also makes me suspect the real reason he is trying to convince everyone that muzzle brakes are some sortof 'wonder accuracy tool' - an opinion that goes against pretty much everyone elses.
that said, its your money. if you believe the guy and his claim that it will increase accuracy, then by all means go get one. hell if you just want one because it 'looks cool', then go get one. thats all that really matters.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Muzzle breaks suck. Get a heavier rifle or shoot from a standing bench.
And no 6mm anywhere needs a break!
And no 6mm anywhere needs a break!
We'll start with this well developed personal phenomenon the writer experienced. I have a plain old fashioned barrel with a hole pointing away from me. Even if I have a concave crown, all gas-based forces (um, pressure) are escaping in a direction away from me. That means that fellow's "covered the shooter....spit sand for 15 minutes..." is a load of horsepucky. Unless he was shooting into a heavy wind, and that would have been equally unsmart.
The majority of muzzle breaks on hunting rifles have ports drilled at an angle directed toward the shooter at 90 to 75 degrees from the bore. You see, in order for a break to be effective for it's original purpose (dampening recoil), the jetstream needs to pull the firearm away from you. That means the same pressure that would normally be flying away from the shooter is now directed to the side and back from the shooter, directly toward yourself (in a manner) and your friends. If this break is ported 360 degrees around it will raise dust, dirt, whatever and blast it back toward yourself and friends (I proved this myself once at the range when I first had one). The break came off and this didn't happen anymore (imagine that
)Yes there are muzzle brakes that are designed for prone shooting, as well as dampening muzzle flip. Mag-na-port, and the big, ugly chevron shaped sucker on Barrett .50 Cals. Great, so use one.
And the BOSS and such systems where designed as a barrel weight harmonics dampener. That is why they sell a CR (non-ported) version that accomplishes the same thing. Unless of course your gunplumber/writer mentor builds lopsided brakes, with more ports on one side then the other, then I guess he could force barrels to bend to one side more than the other changing harmonics. After the bullet has left of course, as the people who get paid to research this stuff have already decided that the air forced out of the barrel ahead of the bullet has no effect on the break, but the gases behind the bullet. This means the break begins doing the work after the bullet leaves the bore, so poo-poo on his harmonics idea.
The other one is sound. Yes breaks are louder. They have proven this already also in sound labs (managed by professionals). It also re-directs muzzle blast (same as the pressure, as that is what is causing the noise) back at you and your friends 90 to 75 degrees from the bore.
Oh, and inhale and blow the air through your mouth. Did it deafen you? No. Do the same thing through a whistle. I bet you that may have hurt. That is what happens when you force air through little holes. It gets louder. Now put 60, 000 psi through some smaller holes than the bore it is used to exiting out of. I betcha that will get louder
. Oh, and all the competition shooters the guy talked about. They use compensators on auto pistols to keep muzzle flip to a minimum so the can acquire targets at a faster rate. Like on an IPSC race gun. They don't do this to shoot itty-bitty groups, they do it to shoot .18 of a second faster on a plate set than their competitor. Go to a benchrest or F class shoot and see how many muzzle breaks you find. Very few in a winners circle.
Now don't thank me for answering as I understand, and am a little patient, if sarcastic. You see I have two little children and they ask stupid questions all the time.
Welcome to Gunnutz. One of the most important pieces of information I have learned on this sight is that I don't know everything, and neither do you. Todd Bartell does.
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- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
We'll start with this well developed personal phenomenon the writer experienced. I have a plain old fashioned barrel with a hole pointing away from me. Even if I have a concave crown, all gas-based forces (um, pressure) are escaping in a direction away from me. That means that fellow's "covered the shooter....spit sand for 15 minutes..." is a load of horsepucky. Unless he was shooting into a heavy wind, and that would have been equally unsmart.
The majority of muzzle breaks on hunting rifles have ports drilled at an angle directed toward the shooter at 90 to 75 degrees from the bore. You see, in order for a break to be effective for it's original purpose (dampening recoil), the jetstream needs to pull the firearm away from you. That means the same pressure that would normally be flying away from the shooter is now directed to the side and back from the shooter, directly toward yourself (in a manner) and your friends. If this break is ported 360 degrees around it will raise dust, dirt, whatever and blast it back toward yourself and friends (I proved this myself once at the range when I first had one). The break came off and this didn't happen anymore (imagine that
Yes there are muzzle brakes that are designed for prone shooting, as well as dampening muzzle flip. Mag-na-port, and the big, ugly chevron shaped sucker on Barrett .50 Cals. Great, so use one.
And the BOSS and such systems where designed as a barrel weight harmonics dampener. That is why they sell a CR (non-ported) version that accomplishes the same thing. Unless of course your gunplumber/writer mentor builds lopsided brakes, with more ports on one side then the other, then I guess he could force barrels to bend to one side more than the other changing harmonics. After the bullet has left of course, as the people who get paid to research this stuff have already decided that the air forced out of the barrel ahead of the bullet has no effect on the break, but the gases behind the bullet. This means the break begins doing the work after the bullet leaves the bore, so poo-poo on his harmonics idea.
The other one is sound. Yes breaks are louder. They have proven this already also in sound labs (managed by professionals). It also re-directs muzzle blast (same as the pressure, as that is what is causing the noise) back at you and your friends 90 to 75 degrees from the bore.
Oh, and inhale and blow the air through your mouth. Did it deafen you? No. Do the same thing through a whistle. I bet you that may have hurt. That is what happens when you force air through little holes. It gets louder. Now put 60, 000 psi through some smaller holes than the bore it is used to exiting out of. I betcha that will get louder
Oh, and all the competition shooters the guy talked about. They use compensators on auto pistols to keep muzzle flip to a minimum so the can acquire targets at a faster rate. Like on an IPSC race gun. They don't do this to shoot itty-bitty groups, they do it to shoot .18 of a second faster on a plate set than their competitor. Go to a benchrest or F class shoot and see how many muzzle breaks you find. Very few in a winners circle.
Now don't thank me for answering as I understand, and am a little patient, if sarcastic. You see I have two little children and they ask stupid questions all the time.
Welcome to Gunnutz. One of the most important pieces of information I have learned on this sight is that I don't know everything, and neither do you. Todd Bartell does.
Got a deal on the cherry flavored Chapstick eh???????
No, but I stayed at a Motel 8 last night
(Brain to Self: I think he called you a girl for owning a muzzle break
Bicep to Brain: Huh?
Brain to Self
sigh) Or you forgot to imply sarcasm when you praised Bartell, agian.Bicep to Brain: Ohhhhhhhhhh.....[lightbulb])
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HMMM I hope I also dont get royal SHYTE for asking some questions..
I am getting my new rifle soon..w/i weeks "hopefully" I have decided to go with Sako synthetic with S/S barrel in hunter 85.. .338 for Grizzly and moose.
I was looking at NESIKA firearms and was lusting after those sweet customs for a mere $5k...HOWEVER I dont have that jingle but I did notice the NEW WORLD RECORD was set for 600 yards with a NESIKA action in some small bore rifle shooting a 88 grain pill and that stainless steel barrel WAS indeed sporting a MUZZLEBREAK... now there MUST be a reason for a smal bore rifle being shot by some guy SEEKING a world record..it certainly wasnt needed for recoil lol but it didnt adversly effect his accuracy..he won a litle over 1 inch at 600 yards with 5 shots not bad..
Now for a .338 reasonable?? I of course will trade my favorite gun guru to develope a couple of loads at his hidden McLeese lake test lab
inexchange for some reloading wooden case I will build or something...but am intersted in the big .338 reducing FELT recoil...
Serious questions......
Steven Rupp
I am getting my new rifle soon..w/i weeks "hopefully" I have decided to go with Sako synthetic with S/S barrel in hunter 85.. .338 for Grizzly and moose.
I was looking at NESIKA firearms and was lusting after those sweet customs for a mere $5k...HOWEVER I dont have that jingle but I did notice the NEW WORLD RECORD was set for 600 yards with a NESIKA action in some small bore rifle shooting a 88 grain pill and that stainless steel barrel WAS indeed sporting a MUZZLEBREAK... now there MUST be a reason for a smal bore rifle being shot by some guy SEEKING a world record..it certainly wasnt needed for recoil lol but it didnt adversly effect his accuracy..he won a litle over 1 inch at 600 yards with 5 shots not bad..
Now for a .338 reasonable?? I of course will trade my favorite gun guru to develope a couple of loads at his hidden McLeese lake test lab
inexchange for some reloading wooden case I will build or something...but am intersted in the big .338 reducing FELT recoil...Serious questions......
Steven Rupp
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
"muzzle jump" is also described as "secondary recil" and is just that.martinbs....
You apparently have no clue!!!! So flap your jaws somewhere else!
Read and read again....it AINT....about recoil!!!
Its about....MUZZLE JUMP...and I AINT shootin...223s!
You come here and shoot my 22-243 Middlestead or this new 6MM Ackley Imp at coyotes @ 500 yards OR gophers @ 300 yards...and you tell me if you see the hits (kills) thru the scope!!!!
call it "muzzle flip" if you wish or describe it in some other fashion, but the fact remains that it is part of the recoil process.
With my heavier calibered varmint rifles I can see my hits out past the 300 yard mark and byond 500, but I make sure my form is such that the gun is coming down in exactly the same place as when the trigger initially broke.
I'm talking about a 6.5 however, the 338 Lapua is a different story - at 1K, yes.
At 300, nope! That rifle is a stock Sako TRGS
A brake definately helps accuracy on the big guns - would I use one for hunting? NOPE!
Cat
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I doubt anyone will disagree that a dragon call on the end of your .338 will reduce the recoil. It seems to me the two questions are: can you shoot it without the muzzle break (meaning you don't need it in the first place), and are you willing to put up with the increased noise (unless you're one of the rare guys who always manages to slip hearing protection on before shooting big game). Oh... and the extra length it adds to the barrel - or the removal of that length from the effective barrel length, depending on how you want to look at it.Now for a .338 reasonable?? I of course will trade my favorite gun guru to develope a couple of loads at his hidden McLeese lake test lab
My own experience is that I am not particularly insensitive to recoil. Probably about average, and two shots out of my brother's 416 Rigby was more than enough for me for life. On the other hand, I have a sub 8 lb .358 Norma Magnum that slings 250 grain bullets more than fast enough, and I have on more than one occasion sat at the bench and fired over 20 rounds out of it. You have to hang on, but there's no pain involved.
You will note it does not have a recoil pad on it. The Swedes back in the 60's thought that was too sissified, I guess...
At any rate, that leads me to suggest that most people will find they can shoot a reasonably light .338 with fairly heavy bullets out of a rifle that fits well without having to resort to putting a dragon call on the muzzle. Particularly when it also has a good recoil pad on the butt!
If you make the leap from shooting a .243 or something like that to full house .338 rounds, yes, you're in for a bit of "culture shock". I suspect that if your first few trips to the range were with lighter bullets loaded a little hotter each time, you would get used to the rifle quite quickly and soon find that full house .338 loads are no big deal, you just need to control the rifle a little more.
At the very least, I'd suggest trying the rifle without a dragon call at first to see if you have a problem without one in place. You may find that installing one is simply a solution to a nonexistant problem with that rifle - and money wasted that could have gone to other goodies instead.
Dragon calls on hunting rifles isn't exactly new, incidentally. My Dad bought a BSA Majestic (or perhaps Imperial) featherweight back about 1960 or so, in 30/06. The last bit of barrel has vertical slots milled on each side of the barrel to act as a muzzle break. Fairly effective in that the same rounds fired out of it don't come back nearly as hard as my Husqvarna featherweight in the same caliber and of approximately the same weight. But... LOUD. The difference between the two rifles with near identical length barrels shooting the same rounds is obnoxiously obvious. Whenever we were out hunting together, if Dad raised his rifle to shoot I started backpedalling and covered my ears. Still a nice rifle to hunt with and shoot, but the noise from the muzzle break still demands particular respect above what you normally give hunting rifles if you value your hearing.
Anyways, hope that helps.
