What can you tell me about 2 1/2in guns and shells?

A

Aabradsh

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Hey there.

I'm looking at getting an old SxS for a grouse gun. I've noticed there are surplus dealers who have large stocks of older European/British guns, at much more affordable prices, because a lot of them are chambered for 2 1/2" shells (I would imagine because these are harder to get). I've never noticed these on a shelf at a gun store, but my local shop actually carries a lot of oddball ammunition, so may be able to order these.

So my questions are as follows;
A: is it worth looking into one of these less expensive guns, given potential ammunition scarcity (keep in mind this would be for grouse hunting, not shooting skeet, etc). They seem to be manufactured by companies with a good rep and from what I've read have potential to be of good quality and value for the price (seemingly between $700-1500 for what I'm looking for). They also seem readily available with features like straight "upland style" stocks, ejectors, and non damascus barrels, all features that I'm looking for, which I'm typically only seeing in guns that cost $3-4,000+ in newer examples.

B: Where is a good place to order ammunition for these, if my local shop cannot source it?

C: Are there particular brands or features I should be looking for in these shells? Again, this is for Ontario ruffed grouse hunting, so likely #7.5 or #8 lead shot.

Thank you
 
Aabradsh said:
Hey there.

I'm looking at getting an old SxS for a grouse gun. I've noticed there are surplus dealers who have large stocks of older European/British guns, at much more affordable prices, because a lot of them are chambered for 2 1/2" shells (I would imagine because these are harder to get). I've never noticed these on a shelf at a gun store, but my local shop actually carries a lot of oddball ammunition, so may be able to order these.

So my questions are as follows;
A: is it worth looking into one of these less expensive guns, given potential ammunition scarcity (keep in mind this would be for grouse hunting, not shooting skeet, etc). They seem to be manufactured by companies with a good rep and from what I've read have potential to be of good quality and value for the price (seemingly between $700-1500 for what I'm looking for). They also seem readily available with features like straight "upland style" stocks, ejectors, and non damascus barrels, all features that I'm looking for, which I'm typically only seeing in guns that cost $3-4,000+ in newer examples.

B: Where is a good place to order ammunition for these, if my local shop cannot source it?

C: Are there particular brands or features I should be looking for in these shells? Again, this is for Ontario ruffed grouse hunting, so likely #7.5 or #8 lead shot.

Thank you
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I shoot old guns and several have 2 1/2” chambers, all perfect for grouse. And yes, because most people dont want to go through the trouble of finding specialty ammunition, the guns sell at very good prices. Depending on where you are in Ontario, Ellwood Epps near Orillia carries low-pressure Challenger 2 1/2” in 12 gauge (7 1/2 and 6, I believe, $17.99 a box) Accuracy Plus in Peterborough often had 2 1/2” in 12 and 16, but I haven’t been in a while. Use the money you save by getting a nice European double with short chambers and buy a flat of Challengers, and you’ll be set for pleasurable grouse hunting for a long time.
 
If it's 12 Ga you can use the mini shells, if anything else you will have to pay more than double for the 2 1/2 shells if you find them.
 
I have some 2 1/2" load data that is just as powerful as 2 3/4"
This reminds me of the question I posed to the Shooting Sports Development manager for a large ammo company years ago about the difference between 2 3/4" and 3" ammo.
"1/4 of an inch!" Was his reply.
Looking at some of my older 2 3/4" ammo confirms that, the wad height was different , that's all.:p
Cat
 
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Unless you hunt much better areas than I do a few boxes will last you for a full season of grouse hunting. British made GameBore 65 MM ( 2 1/2” ) ammo is (was) distributed by Kent Cartridge, and any shop that sells Kent ammo can order Gamebore by the 10 box carton for you and a carton should last you for a few years of practice and hunting. Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Depends on how much you shoot per year, most hunters don’t really shoot much. Satisfying? Immensely, these guns can be addictive though.
 
Ashcroft said:
Unless you hunt much better areas than I do a few boxes will last you for a full season of grouse hunting. British made GameBore 65 MM ( 2 1/2” ) ammo is (was) distributed by Kent Cartridge, and any shop that sells Kent ammo can order Gamebore by the 10 box carton for you and a carton should last you for a few years of practice and hunting. Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Depends on how much you shoot per year, most hunters don’t really shoot much. Satisfying? Immensely, these guns can be addictive though.
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hahaha Ashcroft, the addiction that comes with these things is what I'm worried about!

that's great information though. My local shop deals in a bunch of different Kent shells, so I imagine they can get those.
 
Aabradsh said:
hahaha Ashcroft, the addiction that comes with these things is what I'm worried about!

that's great information though. My local shop deals in a bunch of different Kent shells, so I imagine they can get those.
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I have probably 15 short chambered guns in gauges 12, 16, 20 and 28. It's mostly what I shoot.

Last time I spoke with Kent, which was last summer, they said they were moving to direct sales to consumers in addition to their dealer distribution network. I buy lots of 2 1/2" shells. The Gamebore Regal, the Challenger shells mentioned, RST which in better times were easily available from Prophet River and the Kent Elite 2 1/2". I also use the 12 gauge Win AA Low Recoil/Low Noise which is a very low pressure shell and the bump in pressure that the longer shell creates is only between 500 and 800 psi. Given the normal pressure of those shells in a 2 3/4" chamber is around 5000 psi, that bump in a short chamber still keeps pressure down under 6000 PSI.

My favorites are RST, followed by Gamebore Regal. But they are also the most expensive. I like the Challengers and the Kent Elite (when I can find them). I keep a flat of the Win AA as emergency back up.
 
canvasback said:
I have probably 15 short chambered guns in gauges 12, 16, 20 and 28. It's mostly what I shoot.

Last time I spoke with Kent, which was last summer, they said they were moving to direct sales to consumers in addition to their dealer distribution network. I buy lots of 2 1/2" shells. The Gamebore Regal, the Challenger shells mentioned, RST which in better times were easily available from Prophet River and the Kent Elite 2 1/2". I also use the 12 gauge Win AA Low Recoil/Low Noise which is a very low pressure shell and the bump in pressure that the longer shell creates is only between 500 and 800 psi. Given the normal pressure of those shells in a 2 3/4" chamber is around 5000 psi, that bump in a short chamber still keeps pressure down under 6000 PSI.

My favorites are RST, followed by Gamebore Regal. But they are also the most expensive. I like the Challengers and the Kent Elite (when I can find them). I keep a flat of the Win AA as emergency back up.
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It would be nice to see Kent producing the Elite line up again.
 
This is going to sound like heretic talk but I shoot 2 3/4" cartridges in all but 2 of my short chambered guns. Those two have a distinct step at the end of the chambers. Don't get me wrong - I still am shooting loads at or under what the gun was designed to handle and was proved at, just in a longer cartridge.
 
Londonshooter said:
This is going to sound like heretic talk but I shoot 2 3/4" cartridges in all but 2 of my short chambered guns. Those two have a distinct step at the end of the chambers. Don't get me wrong - I still am shooting loads at or under what the gun was designed to handle and was proved at, just in a longer cartridge.
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I load 2 3/4" shells with low pressure powder such as PB and 7625---very often with 1 oz of lead which keeps the pressure and recoil to a modest level.
 
Cow Town Bill said:
I load 2 3/4" shells with low pressure powder such as PB and 7625---very often with 1 oz of lead which keeps the pressure and recoil to a modest level.
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Me too, Bill. I make the same low pressure 1 oz smokeless target load for all but one of my 12 gauges, whether damascus barrels or fluid steel, black powder proof or nitro. In the past I have cut down 1000's of hulls and done roll crimps for them but can reload them 4x faster if I leave them 2 3/4" long, fold crimp, and not sweat the nominal increase in pressure shooting through a short-chambered gun. I wouldn't do the same with factory ammo without knowing the peak pressure and that info can be hard to find.
 
Cow Town Bill said:
I load 2 3/4" shells with low pressure powder such as PB and 7625---very often with 1 oz of lead which keeps the pressure and recoil to a modest level.
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I do this as well but I prefer the proper 2 1/2” (65mm or 67mm) ammo, I always keep an adequate supply of 2 1/2” and I don’t fret about my ammo although these would be my first choice for a gun that has had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” without reproof. One big problem with extra low pressure 2 3/4” loads is that there is very little reliable tested data for such loads. Another problem is the lack of suitable tested powders, PB and 7625 have been discontinued for many years, nearly impossible to find now.
 
I make roll crimp reloads for my old Parker at about 6500psi and they drop birds fine. I made my own roll crimper from internet plans and though slow it works well enough.
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Ashcroft said:
I do this as well but I prefer the proper 2 1/2” (65mm or 67mm) ammo, I always keep an adequate supply of 2 1/2” and I don’t fret about my ammo although these would be my first choice for a gun that has had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” without reproof. One big problem with extra low pressure 2 3/4” loads is that there is very little reliable tested data for such loads. Another problem is the lack of suitable tested powders, PB and 7625 have been discontinued for many years, nearly impossible to find now.
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I'm fortunate to have a modest supply of both powders. I also have a supply of 2 1/2" 12 ga ammo but the shot size is #6 which is too large for most shotgun ranges. So, for target shooting I reload with PB and 7625 and load 7 1/2, 8 and 9's shot size.
 
I can't tell you anything about a 2 1/2" chambered gun as I've never owned one but I can tell you who just this week acquired 9 boxes of 2 1/2" Winchester Bismuth 1 oz #6...;) hoping it will cycle ok in my Maxus this fall. Will make a nice load for some late season plumed up greenheads. :d
 
the spank said:
I can't tell you anything about a 2 1/2" chambered gun as I've never owned one but I can tell you who just this week acquired 9 boxes of 2 1/2" Winchester Bismuth 1 oz #6...;) hoping it will cycle ok in my Maxus this fall. Will make a nice load for some late season plumed up greenheads. :d
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Very nice score.
 
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