Scope zeroing issues - is my receiver drilled wrong or barrel misaligned?

Facts:
Put scope on another rifle and used a laser bore sight and it was easy to get the crosshair to line up with laser at 10 yards

Put scope back on bergara and had similar issues again, point of impact (of the laser) was high and right compared to reticle.

Put a vortex venom sighted on another rifle on the bergara and noticed that the point of impact (of the laser) was way high and right compared to the reticle. Was able to get it to zero but it was at the bottom of the elevation range. A good amount of adjusting windage to the left as well. The venom has higher adjustment range than the crossfire II

The fact the OP was able to put this scope on another rifle and it wasn't an issue, but putting another scope on this rifle WAS an issue seems to indicate its definitely the rifle not the scope?

OP you don't happen to have a set of windage adjustable rings around eh?
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/71624/weaver-grand-slam-steel-windage-adjustable-rings
 
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I'm the person that sold him the rifle used.

As much as I want it to be the rifle for his sake of diagnosis, i used a weaver 20moa rail with a spuhr 20moa 1 piece ring and vortex razor to shoot about 4 matches of prs in 2021 and 2022.
Furtherest shot was about 440ish yards.
Not a single issue zeroing the razor.
The first scope to go on it was a athlon mid tac, and that zero'd too. (Burris rings, same rail)
 
The fact the OP was able to put this scope on another rifle and it wasn't an issue, but putting another scope on this rifle WAS an issue seems to indicate its definitely the rifle not the scope?

OP you don't happen to have a set of windage adjustable rings around eh?
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/71624/weaver-grand-slam-steel-windage-adjustable-rings

I'm the person that sold him the rifle used.

As much as I want it to be the rifle for his sake of diagnosis, i used a weaver 20moa rail with a spuhr 20moa 1 piece ring and vortex razor to shoot about 4 matches of prs in 2021 and 2022.
Furtherest shot was about 440ish yards.
Not a single issue zeroing the razor.
The first scope to go on it was a athlon mid tac, and that zero'd too. (Burris rings, same rail)

Yea I don't think the rifle is the issue, I think its a combination of the scope and my mount if anything. But the scope being very inconsistent makes everything murky. I needed to take a more systematic approach to making the elevation and windage, or the scope would get stuck. and the initial test was before I learned about that.

The only part that worries me is that both 20moa rail with vortex venom on rings and the 0 moa one piece with this crossfire scope had me dialing left, and chances are low that both mounts has issues, but not impossible. Anyway, will continue testing at range.
 
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I'm the person that sold him the rifle used.

As much as I want it to be the rifle for his sake of diagnosis, i used a weaver 20moa rail with a spuhr 20moa 1 piece ring and vortex razor to shoot about 4 matches of prs in 2021 and 2022.
Furtherest shot was about 440ish yards.
Not a single issue zeroing the razor.
The first scope to go on it was a athlon mid tac, and that zero'd too. (Burris rings, same rail)

How much adjustment do those have? He said what, 50moa on the one he's trying to use? And with a scope he has with more adjustment he could get it on?

Sounds to me like it's the gun. You just didn't use equipment that made it noticeable is my guess.
 
Large elevation corrections can be corrected using shims.
But if your windage is greatly off, it is harder to fix. If the rifle taps are well aligned, it could be that the base is twisted somehow. And that would require a gunsmith to fix.

Can be base be moved at all or are the holes tight to the screws?
 
1.Center the reticule by counting the clicks from stop to stop on both knobs and then adjusting to the half way point.
2.Sit the scope in the base, ensure the rifle, vise & base cannot move easily.
3.Draw a dark cross on a piece of paper with a straight edge; align vertically as a cross, not as an X.
4.Get a helper to move the piece of paper around on the wall until it aligns with the reticule as exactly as possible. Tape or tack the paper in that location; this is preferably at 20-30 feet from the rifle.
5.Rotate the scope in the rings while pressing down on it firmly enough to prevent any wobbling; does the reticule move off center of the cross on the paper when the scope is rotated?
6.If so, hold the scope in the most misaligned position while adjusting the knobs to correct about half the visible error.
7.Rotate back to the starting position and repeat this process turning to the left and right and adjusting the knobs as necessary until the reticule remains exactly aligned on the center of the cross on the paper as the scope is rotated.
8.Now you know the reticule is centered in the scope tube, or to be more exact, in the optical axis of the scope.
9.This would be the time to center the adjustments on the drums, without moving the reticule, so that those adjustments reflect the true center of adjustment. Depending on how much declination you want in the vertical adjustments, you may want to center only the windage adjustment at this point.


If you cannot get the reticule to center you either have mechanical play in what is holding the rifle, the attachment of the base to the rifle, or in your rotation of the scope. Or you have a scope with a parallax problem; with the scope held rigidly move your eye left and right and up and down past the field of view/exit pupil. If the reticule moves the scope is out of adjustment for parallax, at least at that range.

Now that you have the scope reticule properly collimated to its tube, take a fired case for this rifle and drill a hole in the center of the spent primer. If you're using a Boxer primed case, just drill out the primer with a 3/16" or so drill just deep enough to expose the priming hole.

1. Insert the drilled out case in the chamber. If it won't sit in place, wrap it with one run of Scotch tape, and cut the tape with a razor blade and peel off any overlap.
2. Sight through the primer/drilled hole and move the same piece of paper until the cross aligns with the bore.
3. Sit the scope in the open mount base again and look through while rotating it in the mounts; does the reticule align with the vertical line of the cross? If it doesn't your rings are not aligned horizontally and the problem is either in the alignment of the mount axis to the mount base, or the alignment of the receiver holes to the rifle bore, or if you're really unlucky, both! ;)

The problem is much more likely to be the mount than the integral holes or dovetails on the rifle receiver.

That's how I would do it, but always open to better ideas.
 
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Im guessing it's your combo. I had issues with an Anschutz and Talley 1 piece ultralight mounts/bases. I did not have enough elevation to zero at 50, and was 4"left.

Same scope with BLK dovetail rings. Was able to center the POI, but still had not enough elevation.

So I went with weaver bases and Burris signature rings with 20 moa inserts. Been running the same scope since Oct, and no issue zeroing at 50/100.
 
Im guessing it's your combo. I had issues with an Anschutz and Talley 1 piece ultralight mounts/bases. I did not have enough elevation to zero at 50, and was 4"left.

Same scope with BLK dovetail rings. Was able to center the POI, but still had not enough elevation.

So I went with weaver bases and Burris signature rings with 20 moa inserts. Been running the same scope since Oct, and no issue zeroing at 50/100.

Agreed. That’s the same as my REM 7600. Couldn’t get enough elevation and could of shimmed the base but instead opted to Burris Signature Zee rings and ended up with the scope near centered with the bore scope and fine tuned it at the range with only a few shots.
 
150 rnds of load Data and I get this… lolView attachment 663894

I am not sure what I am looking at there?? If your reticle rotated that much within the scope as you were firing, that scope is pooched. If that is how you mounted it, your bore line is going to be significantly offset to the side, when those cross hairs are "squared up" on a target. Is various things sold to assist - to get scope's reticle "square" to the rifle - but you likely can get "close enough" by just loosening the mounting ring caps and rotate that scope so that an imaginary extension of the vertical cross hair would pass through centre of rear of the firing pin - likely will surprise you how easy that is to see - or at least to see error. Then snug up the ring caps - get an even gap on each side and the screws get torqued to ring maker's spec. I have never used loctite or similar in a scope ring.

EDIT: Now I really confused myself - seeing that same picture on a different thread ... I see picture poster here is not same guy who started this thread - but started the other thread - this "old guy" not keeping up ...
 
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I'm the person that sold him the rifle used.

As much as I want it to be the rifle for his sake of diagnosis, i used a weaver 20moa rail with a spuhr 20moa 1 piece ring and vortex razor to shoot about 4 matches of prs in 2021 and 2022.
Furtherest shot was about 440ish yards.
Not a single issue zeroing the razor.
The first scope to go on it was a athlon mid tac, and that zero'd too. (Burris rings, same rail)

Thanks, that helps.

Gotta be the mount or the scope, or both. To my reading, what the OP has posted so far is not perfectly clear. Can we answer these two questions?

1. Can the Crossfire scope that he's trying to set up be properly zeroed on a different rifle with a proven mount?

2. Can a different (proven) scope be properly zeroed on the rifle that he's trying to set up?
 
Thanks, that helps.

Gotta be the mount or the scope, or both. To my reading, what the OP has posted so far is not perfectly clear. Can we answer these two questions?

1. Can the Crossfire scope that he's trying to set up be properly zeroed on a different rifle with a proven mount?

2. Can a different (proven) scope be properly zeroed on the rifle that he's trying to set up?

The OP answered your questions in the first post.

1) yes, crossfire works on a different gun.

2) yes, a diff scope *with more adjustment range* can be zeroed on this rifle.


Something is up with the rifle. It's off by just enough that he can't get the Crossfire on, but a scope with more travel/ adjustment range can get on. You shouldn't need 80moa of travel just to zero the scope. I don't expect a gun to be spot on perfect but this gun appears to have something like a 30 MOA difference between where the barrel is pointing and where the scope points. Just enough that a scope with limited adjustment can't be zeroed, but a scope with more adjustment can.
 
Honestly Suther, I read all of the OP's posts at least twice and I don't think it's that clear (that's why I posted the two questions). But maybe something has been edited since first posting and that has changed the issue.

He has been trying different scopes in different mounts, and I didn't see precise details about which scope in which mount, etc.. I'm just trying to get things as clear as possible with these two questions, maybe he can reply directly to them.

The other big issue here is that everything we're talking about assumes that the laser bore sighter was installed correctly and that it is working properly.

The original owner of the rifle has posted here, and he had no issues with his mount and scope on the rifle.
 
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Note this is close to what I want, but BOTH ELEVATION AND WINDAGE ARE MAXED OUT, I can't go anymore to the left or down.

Thinking about this. In your pictures in Post #1 you have that red dot both left and right of cross hair, and higher and lower - but I understand you to say that you are at or very near to be "max'd out" on the turrets to do that. So it should be possible to end up to be "on" - if that red dot is truly representing where your bullets will go.

In ancient old days, I think the guts of a scope were not polished very well - so was not uncommon to see people like me to be tapping on a turret with fired brass casing - to "jar" the innards to move to final position. After those battles to "get sighted in" - did not really want to screw around with turret adjustments any more - so we learned to "hold off" for some shots - essentially "kentucky windage and elevation" - the way our Dad's fired with open iron sights.

From reading on this forum and others, appears to be an expectation, today, to do "clicks" - almost for each shot - to alter the reticle position to accommodate range or wind at the time of the shot. That might have crossed over from the full bore target shooters with double aperture and round bulls eye target - needed to "click" that rear sight for the windage call, because your sight picture needed to stay the same - even though bullet hopefully going to a different place, for that shot. Even if you can get your outfit to "zero" - I do not think you will have anything left for "clicks" - can read of guys wanting 6 or 10 MOA for wind, for a shot, from "zero" - I do not think you will have that left.

I do not know what that scope cost or how much you have to spend to resolve?? That suggestion earlier to get Burris rings with the nylon off-set inserts might be your best resolution, I think - to get that scope lined up near to optical / mechanical centre and still to be "sighted in" - that way all the available adjustment within that scope is available for "clicks" as you think you need them. But that likely needs different base than you have now. Or can fuss to identify where is the mis-alignment and correct that. Plugging off, re-drilling and re-tapping a hole to new location is a bit of a challenge - it would surprise me if someone could do one screw hole for the cost of a set of those Burris rings? You could also look at having new holes drilled into that scope base of yours - but I suspect is similar fussing to plug them off and then to re-drill where you want them.
 
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Honestly Suther, I read all of the OP's posts at least twice and I don't think it's that clear (that's why I posted the two questions). But maybe something has been edited since first posting and that has changed the issue.

From the first post :

Facts:
Put scope on another rifle and used a laser bore sight and it was easy to get the crosshair to line up with laser at 10 yards
Put scope back on bergara and had similar issues again, point of impact (of the laser) was high and right compared to reticle.

Put a vortex venom sighted on another rifle on the bergara and noticed that the point of impact (of the laser) was way high and right compared to the reticle. Was able to get it to zero but it was at the bottom of the elevation range. A good amount of adjusting windage to the left as well. The venom has higher adjustment range than the crossfire II

The bolded parts answer your questions.

The original owner of the rifle has posted here, and he had no issues with his mount and scope on the rifle.

And just like the OP, with a scope with more adjustment available the previous owner could zero without an issue.


The crossfire simply doesn't have enough adjustment range to zero on this rifle. Which I would blame on the gun - I don't expect the scope to be perfectly in line with the bore, but it should be close enough that you can zero most any scope not just scopes with 80+moa of travel.
 
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My first interpretation was the same as yours. But what he's written is not exactly slam-dunk clear. Something obviously isn't right, and I haven't seen enough to rule out any pieces of the puzzle yet: Rifle, mount, scope, or boresighter.
 
My first interpretation was the same as yours. But what he's written is not exactly slam-dunk clear. Something obviously isn't right, and I haven't seen enough to rule out any pieces of the puzzle yet: Rifle, mount, scope, or boresighter.

Oh i think it's pretty clear at this point.

At the range the rifle was high and right, just like the bore sighter, so it seems he's installing it correctly. With both a different scope on this rifle and this scope on a different rifle he was able to zero with the bore sighter. Those together tell me it's not the bore sighter.

He can zero the crossfire scope on a different rifle without issue, so the crossfire seems to be OK.

The OP has two mounts and they both give the same result. Chances both are off, and both are off in the same direction by similar amounts is highly unlikely.

Seems to me the mounts, scope, and bore sighter have all been eliminated as the most likely source of the problem.

Which leaves the gun. We know the OP and previous owner were both able to zero the gun with scopes with more travel than the OPs crossfire. But you shouldn't *need* that much travel to zero it. So the gun is off, it's just not off enough for the previous owner to have noticed because his set up had the adjustment range necessary to make up for it.
 
Has the op taken everything off the rifle and checked how the base/rail mounting holes line up? It should be pretty easy to see visually with a straight edge if it’s true, the one I had that was misaligned was easy to see visually. It wasn’t off by much but it definitely affected it out at the 100y mark when I was trying to bore sight to get me on paper. If everything else checks out on different guns or is known good then it’s all looking like the rifle is the issue.

I’ve stopped using a laser sighter, I found they weren’t any better than pulling the bolt and looking through the barrel. Install one and rotate it and you’ll see that it’s not centered, I only use one in a semi auto where it’s more involved to remove a bolt.
 
Has the op taken everything off the rifle and checked how the base/rail mounting holes line up? It should be pretty easy to see visually with a straight edge if it’s true, the one I had that was misaligned was easy to see visually. It wasn’t off by much but it definitely affected it out at the 100y mark when I was trying to bore sight to get me on paper. If everything else checks out on different guns or is known good then it’s all looking like the rifle is the issue.

I’ve stopped using a laser sighter, I found they weren’t any better than pulling the bolt and looking through the barrel. Install one and rotate it and you’ll see that it’s not centered, I only use one in a semi auto where it’s more involved to remove a bolt.

Agreed, a very small amount of screw hole offset makes a much bigger offset at 100 yards. In sailing we use the 1 in 60 rule. Steering 1degree off course will put one 1 mile off course at 60 miles. Same idea with base tap holes misaligned.
 
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