If you are sporting a manbun go with the 6.5 Creedmore. If not, go with the .308.
" F " Yes!!!!!
308 vs6.5 creedmore
- Thread starter cockawee1
- Start date
" F " Yes!!!!!
When you are compromising your argument that much, it isn't that much of an argument. A half ton will never be a one ton truck.
That 147 grain bullet will simply not deliver the payload that the 180 or higher weight bullets will. Certainly wouldn't shoot an elk with one at any significant distance. Hold the fluff and pass the 180 grain or plus bullet weights...
R.
JMacdermott
New member
- Location
- British Columbia
I heard the 308 is a girls gun, the 6.5CM is a mans gun?
So surprised to see someone putting the 6.5 up against 300 wm, not really in the same ball park far as I am concerned.
So surprised to see someone putting the 6.5 up against 300 wm, not really in the same ball park far as I am concerned.
Isn't that backwards?
They are both slow as hell... even with light (150 ish) grain bullets... so the appeal would be there for the soft shoulder, factory ammo crowd. They are both easy to get to shoot well, and that's an appeal as well. So depending on where and how a feller hunts, both can be good...enough.
R.
Two cartridges, throwing such similar weight bullets with such a similar amount of powder...so much controversy lol.
No need or use for shooting past 300 yards here, so factory ammo or handloaded ammo make em work great. Both are just fine for any animal walking out here.
Difference between the two in performance is negligable. Amounts to nearly nothing.
And a 180 grain bullet that loses a significant amount of its mass, like 30%, might as well be a 130 grain bullet that just stays that way lol.
Have a feeling you shoot some pretty big animals and pretty far away, Rman?
No need or use for shooting past 300 yards here, so factory ammo or handloaded ammo make em work great. Both are just fine for any animal walking out here.
Difference between the two in performance is negligable. Amounts to nearly nothing.
And a 180 grain bullet that loses a significant amount of its mass, like 30%, might as well be a 130 grain bullet that just stays that way lol.
Have a feeling you shoot some pretty big animals and pretty far away, Rman?
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I've always viewed the 45acp vs 9mm as more of a magazine capacity thing, especially with newer bullets.
308 vs 6.5 Creed really boils down to what you want to do. To 300-400 yards there isn't any real difference in shooting targets or game. What one will do the other will do. Past that distance the 6.5 starts to take over. Factory ammo selection and availability seems to be about the same for both. The .308 has more options when buying bulk FMJ type ammo.
I believe it was write Bob Hagel who said something along the lines of "dont use acartridge that will kill the animal your hunting when everything goes right, use the one that will do the job when everything goes wrong". - dan
If it dumps that mass inside the animal, good things happen, and the same could be said for the 130 grain losing its 30% as well?
There are some longer shot opportunities around here...
R.
Wound channels/damage seem to be pretty much the same to me based on rate of expansion creating temporary shock. The role of the small particles of metal flying around doing their own thing doesn't seem to contribute as much as just plain how violently a bullet opens at a speed that creates hydrostatic shock.
So yeah I can say the same about the 130 grain even if it barely loses any of its mass. If they both lose a proprtional amount of mass, then for sure the one that starts off at 180 is going to be able to punch deeper. Maybe it initially transfers more energy as well, depending on the range at which it hits. I'll give it that. Whether or not it is a critical amount at all is anyone's guess.
Just my take from looking at the animals I've shot or helped gut/butcher after seeing them shot.
It's what those particles of metal do, to what they hit, that causes damage. There is a whole bunch of gack about energy transfer, wound channels, et el... at the end of the day, as has been said, dead is dead. The larger the bullet, going faster, seems to make things dead quicker, with less drama.
The preference is always for an animal to drop upon being hit. no step, no walk, no nothing. Lighter bullets don't tend to do that as often, when their speeds are equal to that of heavier ones, especially on larger critters. Smaller ones, it doesn't seem to matter as much.
R.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I've always viewed the 45acp vs 9mm as more of a magazine capacity thing, especially with newer bullets.
308 vs 6.5 Creed really boils down to what you want to do. To 300-400 yards there isn't any real difference in shooting targets or game. What one will do the other will do. Past that distance the 6.5 starts to take over. Factory ammo selection and availability seems to be about the same for both. The .308 has more options when buying bulk FMJ type ammo.
Loads for sale on SFRC,
.308 Win - 82 factory load options
6.5 Creed - 22 factory load options
A local Crappy Tire had over a dozen .308 loads on the shelf, no 6.5 Creed. Not a knock on the Creed as they didn’t even have .30-30 and that’s what I actually wanted, but I left with three boxes of different .308 Match loads to try in my guns.
Average price per round is significantly lower on .308 too, due to the plethora of FMJ options for target shooting. I bought 2 cases of 175gr Gold Match, and two cases of 500 rounds FMJ in the fall, of which I’m already halfway through at an average cost of under $1.50 a round as well. I can’t find anything comparable in 6.5 for an order like that, and all the .308 stuff I ordered is still in stock.
Without a CNS hit no rifle is doing that for me consistently though.
If whitetail run after catching a 180 grain ballistic tip in the vitals from a 30-06 within 100 yards...or a 165 grain 308 Win fusion in the heart delivered at the same, the amount of energy and bullet mass needed to drop one simply because it's big and fast must be immense.
And that's not getting started on large moose.
I'm just absolutely not seeing it on several dozen animals shot and examined. A bullet without fragmentation but rapid deformation makes wounds that look just about the same and the animal runs a smidgen farther...if farther at all...and only a spine, brain or very heavy damaging bone shot can anchor them instantly 100% of the time.
Again just my observation.
No amount of gack in the world changes the very simple phenomenon that shooting a game animal, even from the inside, with 30 grains of tiny lead and copper particulate would be pathetic....and that a bullet going at a speed fast enough to cause hydrostatic upset that rapidly expands makes shockwaves in a mostly water based target that exceed the elasticity of tissue. And the faster it does that the more shock it creates. Regardless of fragmentation from wee little particulate (which are largely byproduct of the previous phenomenon).
"what you take your deer with, Clem?"
"About an aspirin's weight of powdered lead and copper chunks!"
"deadly"
Course part of what makes all this so fun is differing ideas/methodology
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Apples to Apples, using your own 1800fps bullet cutoff Blakey.
Removing the humans from the comparison load choice, the lightest loads in the Ballistic app load library vs the heaviest, in both 6.5 Cr and .300 Win.
These cartridges are a small ocean apart in performance, completely ignoring the energy which the .300 literally doubles (check equivalent ranges, and energy). There unfortunately is no world a 6.5 Creed equals a .300 Win, said as an admirer of both.
You’ve made some great posts and analogies on ballistics, but saying the 6.5 matches a .300 all the way out is a misstep. Now a .308, that it is very close with and can even get the knod far out by a little bit.
just using factory loads, I conceded the newer 300 win mag stuff can beat up the 6.5 cm better now, and reloaders can widen the gap further, but when the creed came out and for about a decade you had to compare it to the standards of the 300 win mag 150-180 gr stuff as that's what it was running with for penetration, drop and wind drifts...and even the basic 140 grain eld-m white box load in the 6.5 cm flexed hard on the 300 win mag 150-180 standards, the 300 has to pull up its socks if it wants to beat on it, and I just run basic ballistic calculator anyone can find, at my memorized atmospherics simply changing the rated mv and bc to compare, put the 140-147's at rated velocities to 300 150-180 rated velocities, that's the perspective that was needed to demonstrate because everyone knew the 300 150-180 performance, as soon as you start talking about reloading the conversation goes out the window, the versatility one can add to any cartridge with reloading about quadruples, easiest way to compare is off the shelf standards against off the shelf standards at off the shelf ratings, to demonstrate the appropriate perspective best (apple/apple)
and for others, yes, for most to 400 this conversation isn't really for you, but for recoil alone sake and improving hit probability maybe it should raise an eyebrow? as we all agree that there's no replacement for placement so hit probability should be something to look at, then there's future proofing and even resale considerations, versatility of the 6.5 is simply higher than the 308 even if you have no intention of using it to it's potentials
9mm every day that ends in y and twice on sundays lol
don't gaslight me about you're compromising of arguments lol
you can lead a horse to water...
dead is dead, not sure how many times a guy needs to see a smaller cartridge with a better matched bullet for game intended internal damage compared to larger cartridge with a tougher bullet that just pokes holes and leaves unimpressive internal damage etc. oh but wait, you had two holes so you could track better...and track you will lol, twice as far, where the little combo by comparison just drops the critter or halves the running distance...we digress so easily when we're not actually listening, you can't go wrong with your 'just throw a 180 out of 30 cal and you're good' formula, enjoy that recoil, cost, and barrel life, choice is great, you also can't go wrong with a totally different formula either, one based on half a century of lessons learned...choice is great
and never said 1/2 ton would be a 1 ton, that's less about engine and more about driveline/frame, not sure how you heard that but that's on you
I’ll take the stopping power of a .45ACP in a double stack for $1000 Alex… same argument as here really
And to your point of when the 6.5Cm reaches the 308 load count?
You’ve conveniently forgotten there’s lot of years behind the 08 of rounds being fired down ranges, military use and on game before the Manbun decided to show up.
Doubtful it will get close to those same vast numbers as the 08 already is and continues to amass in our lifetime.
