308 vs6.5 creedmore
- Thread starter cockawee1
- Start date
slow as hell? you know the difference between 2500 and 3000 fps? in actual perspective? 8%
exponential compounding to get that extra 8%, the powder you burn and the recoil you take is another 50+% lol...so to alleviate that you make the bullet longer and skinnier and do more for less, in the air, through the animal, and on the shoulder
2500 fps is hauling azz, 3000 fps can only be described as 'slightly faster'...think that makes a difference to the animals? it's like the diameter and weight of bullets differences also, people make out a big difference between them same as your thoughts on velocity...but the percentages are ####, minuscule, .264 to .308 diameter 8.5%....and 140-150 gr, less than 10, 140-165 about 15%...the amount of semantics we get wrapped up in is the big difference, perspective is wonderful, we get lost in the weeds over a whole bunch of nothing burgers, gotta get up to 40,000' every now and then, progress is great, but for some unknown reason a good portion of people are stubborn and grouchy and don't like it, maybe from a lifetime of experience beating on enthusiasm creating cynicism? I dunno, just stick to the objective and use logic, seems to work for many...leave the subjective out of it whenever possible.
And a 308 at 16 ft/lbs running a 178 trying to keep up to a 6.5 running a 140 at 11.7 ft/lbs recoil energy are not even close to the same for 'easy to shoot'. 30 cals suck. I can shoot more recoil accurately on faster lighter bullets, .270 win up to 140's in a 7 lb all up I can maintain 3 shot groups in field conditions to moa average...every 30 cal I've shot 308, 30-06 and 300wm has sucked by comparison, even with 150's. The 6.5 cm can run with the .270 to 600 yards for 2000 fps impacts...I love the 270 win, my fav 20th century cartridge hands down, but I'll take the 6.5 cm over it for the rest of days and shoot it even better. 308 dinosaur can pound sand lol
Lots going here...
At 100 yards, lets be clear, it isn't really going to matter what you shoot your deer with. Everything from a 223 on up will, and has, worked, just fine. And yes, CNS hits are always preferred, when available.
Also, to be clear, most deer are shot with a 243AI, regardless of distance. It's a dirty trick, and it works amazingly well. It was mentioned about smaller critters vs larger ones.
Kinda lost on the 30 grain thing? If a 180 grain bullet sheds 30 grains of shrapnel into a critter at 2200 fps, you don't think that does damage? Ok...
Carry on then.
Again, at the distances you're doing things at, none of this matters. Use what you like, and keep on doing what you're doing. It obviously works. Nothing wrong with that.
R.
don't gaslight me about you're compromising of arguments lol
you can lead a horse to water...
dead is dead, not sure how many times a guy needs to see a smaller cartridge with a better matched bullet for game intended internal damage compared to larger cartridge with a tougher bullet that just pokes holes and leaves unimpressive internal damage etc. oh but wait, you had two holes so you could track better...and track you will lol, twice as far, where the little combo by comparison just drops the critter or halves the running distance...we digress so easily when we're not actually listening, you can't go wrong with your 'just throw a 180 out of 30 cal and you're good' formula, enjoy that recoil, cost, and barrel life, choice is great, you also can't go wrong with a totally different formula either, one based on half a century of lessons learned...choice is great
and never said 1/2 ton would be a 1 ton, that's less about engine and more about driveline/frame, not sure how you heard that but that's on you
Ok?
R.
Never once said it doesn't do damage. I think it does negligable damage.
Like I said, would 30 grains of small pieces of copper and lead rapidy deaccelerating inside the body of a big game animal be trusted to ethically and reliably kill it quickly?
No, not really. A 30 grain frangible bullet would be a terrible big game round.
It is making a contribution but its a rather minimal contribution when held next to what the other 70% of the 180 grain bullet has done lol.
I am a big believer in putting a round thru the front shoulder. When they cant use their shoulder to run and the bullet still goes thru the front of the vitals it’s over very quick. I learned this years ago to avoid having to shoot on deer on land I had permission on with 3 sections of Karen’s around it.
To achieve this you need a 300 to put that level of smack down. For whitetail either 6.5 or .308 should be equal to 300m. After that neither is optimal.
Wow...can see why you need that one down right there! Just reading about those three makes me need a beer lol
That's one of the CNS shots I was referring to with how even pretty powderful firearms won't instantly anchor big game reliably unless you hit a sweet spot. Its the "tv hunting" shot for a reason, like you siad they go right down.
when the 6.5 cm, er...I mean, when you standardize a completely different level of bc/sd modern bullet into the short action, you essentially roll up the majority of performance potentials/versatilities of not only the 308 but ALL the 308 variants AAAAND all the 30-06 based variants into a single easy to shoot cartridge, progress is wonderful
people wanna hate, but really, there's a lot to love with that formula...so anyone wanting to look ahead and or appreciate many times the versatility, including off the shelf, we get to do that now, lots of reloaders are grouchy as they could take things to next levels that the factory shooters couldn't...now any ole punk with a manbun can get that performance off the shelf lol
ignore the objective all you like, 308 will be a legend for a long time, I've owned them, will never have another, there's a new standard in town...the 308 just doesn't see it yet lol. That's normal. Ego is always getting in the way
and 9mm is a penetration rockstar, it's all in the numbers, it has the best sd and velocity ratio going for the majority goals intended for pistol cartridges, max performance and versatility of them all, others too slow, too fat, recoil too much, it goes on and on, guys wanna sound tough though, lifted trucks, ooh I shoot a 10mm...laughs at 9mm guy....I drive a lifted truck btw, most of my comments tongue in cheek to get y'all fired up, pretty sure you can tell that by now, it really doesn't take much haha, poking the bear while speaking the truth
Nice ballistic gack spew... Shooting, especially when shooting at distance, is all about managing variables. Velocity, is a constant. More, is better. Because it helps reduce a variable. Wind. Time of flight. This is simple stuff. Recoil? Don't care. Powder? Don't care. Barrel life? Don't care. Case life? Don't care. Difference to the animal? Don't care.
Performance? Absolutely, 100% care. Whatever gives the best, most consistent result, with the least amount of risk.
Don't run 30 cals either, or 6.5's. Don't see the need. Can't stand 308's, 30-06's, or 270's. Not the games... the players. The 6.5 is rapidly making that list.
Shooting under 400 yards?
None of the above matters. Pick what you like. Go shoot stuff. The result matters. That's it!
R.
comparing a .264 to a .308 . Too much diff . I can't see how the little guy can keep up . I'll still take the 308 anytime especially on a angling / or shoulder shots when needed . The advantage to me is the weight in the same bullet construction. Why limit yourself for so little in recoil diff , and maybe you hunt where monsters roam and need the 308 ...lol a joke
Soon we will hear why the 223 is great for moose
Soon we will hear why the 223 is great for moose
30 grains of little wee fragments do massive, liquefying internal organ damage?
Absent, you know, the bullet with 99% more energy that just rapidly deformed and pushed those organs past the threshold which they can stretch?
News to me.
Why does the same occur with a bonded, tough bullet that easily opens and doesn't lose that mass then? because somehow the equivalent of a 22 long rifle weight of fragments with pathetic amount of energy behind them and nearly no ability to penetrate, since they are so small and weirdly shaped, just does magical damage?
There's no good explantion for imaginary phenomena. Otherwise why would hunting moose with a 223 be all that bad of an idea? Far from it, I'd think that a 55gr varmint bullet essentially doubles the weight, energy, speed, or whatever else is going to do the "massive, liquefying organ damage" the bits and pieces falling off your hunting bullet seem to do...completely ignoring the effects of the bullet that shat them off in the first place lol. Which apparently wouldn't be doing this unless it cast off the equivalent of a round of 22lr rat shot.
Amazing.
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This is what causes massive internal liquefying damage. The stretch of the temporary cavity exceeding the amount of an organ's ability to stretch and thus destroying it.
Not 22 ratshot.
The bullet must violenty expand and deform. In doing so, the fragmentation is a side effect. Not the main damaging compenent.
There is no reasonable explanation for how a tiny amount of wee metal particles shed from a bullet do massive damage.
You've never hit a rib with a bullet and seen what the fragments have done? Never shot an animal with a Berger, Scenar, Amax, or a Matchking?
R.
