good Catridge BUT the 338 Federal is the KING OF THE small cartridges. ! If you’re a Handloader . RJ
308 vs6.5 creedmore
- Thread starter cockawee1
- Start date
good Catridge BUT the 338 Federal is the KING OF THE small cartridges. ! If you’re a Handloader . RJ
Dude, really? So it is a me thing? You do realize that a bullet is propelled by an explosion too, right? And as far as shrapnel goes, both will be flying at around the same speeds? And doing the same things when they hit meat?
You're so busy trying to be right, you're pretty much missing everything...
Last time I checked... It doesn't matter how fast you throw a grenade, or a bullet... because they are powered by explosions, remember? C'mon man.
Watch the vid, look at the picture. Learn something. LOL...
R.
So now Berger is wrong as well...
Too funny.
Maybe you should pour another?
For the record... that is exactly how organs liquify...
R.
Tell you what...respond with something more than empty appeal to authority "so Berger is wrong too" and I'll slow down on the booze, cause I sure ain't getting much in the way of applied physics here. I thought pouring more would even the field.
The lectures on the fragments from a hand grenade being exactly at the same relative speed as fragments breaking off a bullet as it strikes a medium are hilarious though, especially the "bullet was also propelled by an explosion" part is worth the price of admission alone lol.
By all means keep telling me how this stuff works lol.
Sorry Joel, but you're wrong
Thinking at this point, if you don't believe that a bullet is propelled by an explosion, you're kind of beyond reach...and it's grenade fragments and bullets being the same speeds... get it right...
And it is hilarious. Just not quite the way you think.
Bottoms up!
R.
They spread and damage internal organs to the point of jelly. I've seen it many times during a long and successful hunting career. The quickest and most devastating kills are typically with frangible type bullets. Their downside is a lack of a blood trail but it's not often needed.
Bullets that stay together penetrate further and often exit producing a good blood trail.
So how do you know it isn't the much more rapid onset of bullet expansion damaging the organs by creating a larger hydrostatic shockwave and stretching things farther than their point of elasticity, thus damaging the organs/tissue?
Are softer, faster opening bullets not also faster, more violent openers?
If we look at hydrostatic shock happening due to a Barnes bullet (which creates no fragmentation) we can see how much stretch and epansion takes place inside the gel.
Again, no fragmentation involved in that.
Is it unreasonable to think that a bullet opening faster than the Barnes, thus transferring energy into the target in the form of shockwaves of greater energy than that, would damage more tissue by pushing it past what it can stand to be stretched and liquifying it?
Last edited:
By the bullet fragments spread throughout the surrounding area.
Sorry, I've edited the post afterward to add the picture of the gel and the shockwave description.
Still not seeing what proves the fragments are doing MORE damage than the phenomenon already being captured in the photo. Only that they are present and do contribute *something*
I have no argument against the idea that they do additional damage, there just isn't any way (to me) to see them as anything besides a secondary function of very rapid and violent bullet opening which is demonstrably capable of disrupting and damaging more tissue on its own than the fragments are.
Still not seeing what proves the fragments are doing MORE damage than the phenomenon already being captured in the photo. Only that they are present and do contribute *something*
I have no argument against the idea that they do additional damage, there just isn't any way (to me) to see them as anything besides a secondary function of very rapid and violent bullet opening which is demonstrably capable of disrupting and damaging more tissue on its own than the fragments are.
I'll try one last time... The bullet behavior you have shown, and describe, will, at best, rip, or tear organ tissue along the axis of bullet travel, as the tissue expansion threshold is met. The issue with the gel picture is that it's shown at maximum expansion. It would be better to have it shown after...
As far as physics go, we can try it with surface area? With a say a Barnes bullet, the energy will be expended across that area (bullet diameter), over that period of time, and exiting. With a Berger, The energy is expended across a greater, increased surface area, as the bullet fragments(fragmented diameter), over that period of time, and not exiting, meaning it's staying within the animal and causing more damage. Does that work?
The difference is what the fragments do to the tissue, as compared to what the singular bullet does. They absolutely shred the organs to bits. Hence the hand grenade comparison.
R.
Last edited:
I get ya, but that's permanent cavity and not counting temporary cavity. Which I do think can actually liquefy organs in a spherical shape around the bullet path when it opens up, as clearly seen in the gel. And that it has a lot more power to do so than small fragments. Especially depending on the organ in question.
If we disagree on that, we disagree on that.
