M91/30 PU Sniper

Thunderstreak

Thunderstreak

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Super GunNutz
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I’m looking at an M91/30 ex sniper rifle that has had the scope mounting holes plugged and welded. Wondering if anyone has had any success reversing that process? Considering carefully drilling out the plugs and re-threading the holes. I have a Tula PU now but the rifle is the wrong year. My thought is to transfer the scope, mount and stock to what is more likely a genuine rifle of the right year.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
 
It can be done,but I'd suggest shooting the rifle first to check for accuracy first.Some ex snipers are good,..others not so much....honestly I'd save my shekels and try to find the real deal...
 
SA85M1 said:
It can be done,but I'd suggest shooting the rifle first to check for accuracy first.Some ex snipers are good,..others not so much....honestly I'd save my shekels and try to find the real deal...
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Many ex sniper rifles were rebarreled after being returned to the arsenals. It's pretty easy to tell. The original sniper barrels will have a scope serial number stamped on the left side of the chamber area on the barrel.

If you do purchase an ex sniper, take the time to look at the crown, and the leades for wear. Often the first couple of inches of rifling, at the leade, are burned away and the muzzles will show cord wear.

Also, even a barrel that was once very accurate, or accurate enough for the job intended, will shoot poorly if it's to badly pitted or worn.

Many of those Ex Sniper rifles had new or close to new original barrels. I sold one in Chilliwack that would shoot surplus Czech ammo under 2 inches off the bench if I did my part. My eyes just aren't good enough for tangental irons these days. Not to bad with diopter type rear sights though.
 
The nice thing about the M91/30’s is they aren’t super expensive. No major financial risk involved really. I’m not super concerned about owning a 100% accurate original. The one I have is ok. This would just be a fun little project to get a little closer to the real deal. Unfortunately the ad for the one I was considering seems to have been taken down. I’ll keep searching!
 
Thunderstreak said:
I’m looking at an M91/30 ex sniper rifle that has had the scope mounting holes plugged and welded. Wondering if anyone has had any success reversing that process? Considering carefully drilling out the plugs and re-threading the holes. I have a Tula PU now but the rifle is the wrong year. My thought is to transfer the scope, mount and stock to what is more likely a genuine rifle of the right year.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The issue with welding is that it renders that part of the metal harder. Drilling through it is one thing but tapping into hardened metal is a recipe for a broken tap, inside the hole, which then causes an entirely new problem to remove.

Honestly, if provenance isn't that important, it'd be better to start with a virgin rifle and drill / tap that for the scope mount.

Scopes and mounts are available on eBay and complete rifles are also fairly easy to find ... although everyone seems to think a Moisin with a scope is somehow worth $1500 and up .... which its not.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
The issue with welding is that it renders that part of the metal harder. Drilling through it is one thing but tapping into hardened metal is a recipe for a broken tap, inside the hole, which then causes an entirely new problem to remove.

Honestly, if provenance isn't that important, it'd be better to start with a virgin rifle and drill / tap that for the scope mount.

Scopes and mounts are available on eBay and complete rifles are also fairly easy to find ... although everyone seems to think a Moisin with a scope is somehow worth $1500 and up .... which its not.
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I agree with everything you have said. Fortunately I am familiar and capable of dealing with that type of repair and have the tools. Lots of broken exhaust manifold bolts in my day to day work! I just wasn’t sure if the metal these rifles were made of posed any special issues. I already have a complete PU built on a 1939 Tula M91/30. That rifle is a close mate to another 1939 Tula I bought over 30 years ago. If I stumble across another ex-sniper, figured it would be a fun project. One PU based on the correct ‘43 or ‘44 rifle and a really nice pair of ‘39’s! Worst case I’m out 5 or 6 hundred bucks!
 
collector67 said:
I have a ‘43 Tula ex sniper that shoots very accurately with the bayonet attached.
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The bayo likely adds dampening for the harmonics. I have three sniper rifles two original PU scope types and one after market PE type.

All three of them shoot well without the bayo attached. None of them shoot well with a bay attached. The groups, at 200yds, open up to basketball size, if you can call that a group and it doesn't seem to matter which ammo I shoot through them.

The two original sniper rifles with their original issue scopes, really like just about any issue 7.62x54R ammo. I had a tough time finding a handload they would shoot better, even using original bullets/powder, scrounged from surplus ammo that my other Mosins liked.

I finally weighed the water capacities of the surplus cases and compared them to the water capacities of the new Remington Boxer primed cases I was using. It turned out the lacquered steel cases of the surplus ammo had quite a bit more capacity, so I decreased the powder charge by appx 5% and the groups were much better.
 
Thunderstreak said:
I agree with everything you have said. Fortunately I am familiar and capable of dealing with that type of repair and have the tools. Lots of broken exhaust manifold bolts in my day to day work! I just wasn’t sure if the metal these rifles were made of posed any special issues. I already have a complete PU built on a 1939 Tula M91/30. That rifle is a close mate to another 1939 Tula I bought over 30 years ago. If I stumble across another ex-sniper, figured it would be a fun project. One PU based on the correct ‘43 or ‘44 rifle and a really nice pair of ‘39’s! Worst case I’m out 5 or 6 hundred bucks!
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The ex sniper rifles I've encountered were all welded on the outside and the welds aren't very deep. Just deep enough to provide enough material to hide the screws, which are about the same hardness as the receiver. I don't know what type of rods they used but the material isn't overly hard, but it is harder than the receivers.

I've done a couple of these rifles and it's not as easy as some seem to think. In all honesty, I just said to hell with the original screw types and drilled out the holes from the inside of the receiver wall to the outside, which cleared up most of the weld material, then cleaned up the rest with a countersink bit.

I also did the tapping of the new holes from the inside, which gives the tap some support when it reaches the slightly harder material on the outside.

Lots of cutting fluid and very short turns into the harder metal help to keep the taps in one piece.

Cheap taps will dull after one hole. Get a decent quality tap if you can find one. Canadian Tire, Princess Auto and KBA do not stock good quality taps.

I order mine from the UK, Tracy Tools Ltd

Order the taps and screws at the same time for best results.
 
I was originally hoping to put together a Tula but discovered the faux sniper I bought (1939 Tula) has a Izhevsk bent handle bolt in it. Very small stamp that I missed before. To keep things somewhat aligned I have revised my search to an Izhevsk ex sniper for this project. Also looking for a set of 7.62x54r headspace gauges, any suggestions on that front would be appreciated. The scope and mount I have are Ukrainian reproductions which I understand were fairly true to the originals and of good quality. Wish me luck in my search!
 
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