NOE 9mm plug

dearslayer

dearslayer

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I'm reloading 9 mm with my own cast 138gr boolits dropped from an MP mold non-lube groove. The problem I seem to have is when seating the bullet the powder coat is being scraped off because there isn't enough flare on the case. I have it adjusted to the max on the Lee powder through expanding die. I have read where some folks suggested purchasing an NOE powder through expanding plug. I reached out to them this morning in an email and they did reply back with a suggestion for the attached expander plug however with the US dollar and shipping costs at $45 USD would put purchasing the plug and shipping to my door at about $80 Canadian which is a little outrageous. I'm wondering if anybody is aware of a place in Canada to purchase the same item.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/powder-through-expanders/pistol-powder-through-expanders/35-pistol-expanders/9mm-luger-powder-through-expander-kit/
 
Well, maybe you could gain a couple thousandths of an inch using a .357 powder thru plug in your 9mm die? Does that work? Lee sells die parts pretty cheaply.

It looks like some of this NOE kit is just some spacers that reduce the floating distance of the plug, I know that I have been able to get some increased flare in at least one of my Lee sets simply by putting a washer or two in behind the existing plug.

In general though, I'm a little surprised by your issue. Surely it doesn't take much flare to get the bullet in, past the mouth of the case that could be scraping off the coating?
 
hmmm

dieandbox2.jpg
 
BattleRife said:
Well, maybe you could gain a couple thousandths of an inch using a .357 powder thru plug in your 9mm die? Does that work? Lee sells die parts pretty cheaply.

It looks like some of this NOE kit is just some spacers that reduce the floating distance of the plug, I know that I have been able to get some increased flare in at least one of my Lee sets simply by putting a washer or two in behind the existing plug.

In general though, I'm a little surprised by your issue. Surely it doesn't take much flare to get the bullet in, past the mouth of the case that could be scraping off the coating?
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I am able to place the bullet just barely inside the flare but the problem is I think is when I seat it, it might not be going in completely straight because it's not balance properly on the mouth of the flare. Not every bullet gets powder coat scraped off but more than I care for.
 
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dearslayer said:
For sure I did see this on their site and I even have the catalog but I don't think it's a powder through plug. I thought it was just a solid plug.
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These aren't powder-through plugs and they ha a pretty steep angle that just bells the last 1/8" of the case. Something more like the Lee expander die or the Lyman m-die would be a better bet.

Trying one meant for 38 S&W or 357 might be worthwhile if available.
 
Well I can't help with the price other than to say I ordered 3 of their non-powder thru expanders and it wasn't so bad paying the shipping. They are like the Lyman or RCBS, can't remember, M dies that put a step in the case mouth. They have dimensions on their website and you should be able to determine if they will open the case mouth enough for your particular bullets. As a side note, would a trip through a Lee push through sizer work?
 
supernova said:
Well I can't help with the price other than to say I ordered 3 of their non-powder thru expanders and it wasn't so bad paying the shipping. They are like the Lyman or RCBS, can't remember, M dies that put a step in the case mouth. They have dimensions on their website and you should be able to determine if they will open the case mouth enough for your particular bullets. As a side note, would a trip through a Lee push through sizer work?
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These boolits are sized after powder coat to 0.3575 already. I'll have to either order something or have a friend make one for me.
 
dearslayer said:
These boolits are sized after powder coat to 0.3575 already. I'll have to either order something or have a friend make one for me.
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Ok, looking at the NOE powder through expander kit I see the expander itself measures .358 X .354". .358" being the larger step and should work great with your .3575 bullets.
 
dearslayer said:
I am able to place the bullet just barely inside the flare but the problem is I think is when I seat it, it might not be going in completely straight because it's not balance properly on the mouth of the flare. Not every bullet gets powder coat scraped off but more than I care for.
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This why I bought Hornady bullet seating dies. They have a floating seater sleeve which trues up the bullet before it enters the case and avoids scraping lead or PC from the bullet.
 
supernova said:
Ok, looking at the NOE powder through expander kit I see the expander itself measures .358 X .354". .358" being the larger step and should work great with your .3575 bullets.
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I did email NOE for suggestions and they did suggest the 9mm .35 powder through expander plug .360x.356...however it's cost prohibitive. It will cost me about $100 CDN after all said and done. If the shipping on such a small item wasn't $45.71USD I'd order it. I may switch dies for another brand.
 
ted_dent said:
This why I bought Hornady bullet seating dies. They have a floating seater sleeve which trues up the bullet before it enters the case and avoids scraping lead or PC from the bullet.
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Interesting. I tried again tonight thinking that perhaps my seating die was crimping as well, before being all the way seated so I pulled it out and started all over to make a dummy round and it did work great then I loaded a round and it shaved the boolit as it did before. At this point I became very frustrated and had to walk away from it.. It's got to be something I'm doing wrong.
 
dearslayer said:
Interesting. I tried again tonight thinking that perhaps my seating die was crimping as well, before being all the way seated so I pulled it out and started all over to make a dummy round and it did work great then I loaded a round and it shaved the boolit as it did before. At this point I became very frustrated and had to walk away from it.. It's got to be something I'm doing wrong.
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Unless there is something really out of whack like an out of true ram there are really only a couple of things that can cause lead shaving:
1. not enough flare on the case mouth
2. bullet not properly aligned in the case
3. interior of the case mouth not chamfered so it has a very sharp edge (highly unlikely and typically only occurs on the first loading of brand new brass in conjunction with 1. or 2. above
4. rough edge inside the seating die (although if your dummy round was OK this shouldn't be the issue as it would happen with all rounds, dummy or loaded)

If it is none of the above that pretty much only leaves operator error as the problem. Remember when placing the bullet in the case you will be able to see left or right cant but it is much more difficult to see forward or backward cant. As you withdraw the loaded round from the die try to observe where the shaving is occurring to isolate where it is taking place and see if it is consistently the same spot from round to round.
 
ted_dent said:
Unless there is something really out of whack like an out of true ram there are really only a couple of things that can cause lead shaving:
1. not enough flare on the case mouth
2. bullet not properly aligned in the case
3. interior of the case mouth not chamfered so it has a very sharp edge (highly unlikely and typically only occurs on the first loading of brand new brass in conjunction with 1. or 2. above
4. rough edge inside the seating die (although if your dummy round was OK this shouldn't be the issue as it would happen with all rounds, dummy or loaded)

If it is none of the above that pretty much only leaves operator error as the problem. Remember when placing the bullet in the case you will be able to see left or right cant but it is much more difficult to see forward or backward cant. As you withdraw the loaded round from the die try to observe where the shaving is occurring to isolate where it is taking place and see if it is consistently the same spot from round to round.
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Well I took everything apart again tonight only to end up more frustrated than last night. I'm completely done with it. There are only so many variables and I've exhausted them all it seems. I think the biggest issue is not being able to get enough flare on the case to start with. It's time for a new press and dies. I don't enjoy reloading when there are more problems than there is boolits. I've been thinking of may RCBS press and dies seems as a Dillon is out of reach price wise. I'm a bit hesitant just the same on any new press for fear that this liberal government will be in power next election and if that's the case reloading won't be necessary because we will have nothing to shoot with.
 
You have to realize that up until a number of years ago everything was geared towards copper clad bullets.

Yah the Lee cased flare is an extra step but it DOES solve your problem. Also make sure that your diameters are in spec.

Have you done a plunk test yet?
 
yomomma said:
You have to realize that up until a number of years ago everything was geared towards copper clad bullets.

Yah the Lee cased flare is an extra step but it DOES solve your problem. Also make sure that your diameters are in spec.

Have you done a plunk test yet?
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I do get what you are saying. I think the frustration levels get to the point that you just want to throw in the towel. It's worst because up to a point not long ago it seemed to be working not too bad. Yes I've done many plunk test with final rounds even the shaved rounds and they plunk just fine. Everything does spec out fine. Would it be that I have to seat at 1.08 for the Canik that I'm loading for( can't see that making a difference as far as the flare goes. The other issues is if I turn the die back 1 full turn after it touches the shell holder as per the instructions then the power throw actuator doesn't function enough to throw powder. For that to work proper I have to seat the die till it just about touches the shell holder. And the actuator works fine and throws the 3.2grs but then I'm maxed out ( touching the shell holder ) and theres still not enough nearly enough flare for the boolit that are sized at 0.3575. I feel that I'm beating a dead horse to death with this thing repeating the same procedure over and over so I apologize to all for that. Part of the reason I want to throw it in the corner. Lol.
 
What happens if you take the powder measure off and just worry about the flaring for the time being? I don't know what measure you are using, but it may be adding variables.

For my part, I love Lee powder thru expanding dies for pistol, and many of my Hornady / RCBS sets have been bolstered by setting the factory expander die aside and adding a Lee to the kit. I've had a few problems with them, notably rough machining on the expander plug, but every one of them was capable of putting a bell like an old blunderbuss muzzle on the end of a case. I just can't imagine what is stopping yours.
 
BattleRife said:
What happens if you take the powder measure off and just worry about the flaring for the time being? I don't know what measure you are using, but it may be adding variables.

For my part, I love Lee powder thru expanding dies for pistol, and many of my Hornady / RCBS sets have been bolstered by setting the factory expander die aside and adding a Lee to the kit. I've had a few problems with them, notably rough machining on the expander plug, but every one of them was capable of putting a bell like an old blunderbuss muzzle on the end of a case. I just can't imagine what is stopping yours.
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I believe the powder measure is necessary to weigh down the bushing for flaring. It's spring loaded.
 
dearslayer said:
I do get what you are saying. I think the frustration levels get to the point that you just want to throw in the towel. It's worst because up to a point not long ago it seemed to be working not too bad. Yes I've done many plunk test with final rounds even the shaved rounds and they plunk just fine. Everything does spec out fine. Would it be that I have to seat at 1.08 for the Canik that I'm loading for( can't see that making a difference as far as the flare goes. The other issues is if I turn the die back 1 full turn after it touches the shell holder as per the instructions then the power throw actuator doesn't function enough to throw powder. For that to work proper I have to seat the die till it just about touches the shell holder. And the actuator works fine and throws the 3.2grs but then I'm maxed out ( touching the shell holder ) and theres still not enough nearly enough flare for the boolit that are sized at 0.3575. I feel that I'm beating a dead horse to death with this thing repeating the same procedure over and over so I apologize to all for that. Part of the reason I want to throw it in the corner. Lol.
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A couple of questions:
1. What type of press are you using (single stage or progressive)?
2. According to your above comment when you back the die off one full turn you are not getting powder thrower actuation. The Lee instructions say to back the die off 1/4 of a full turn from the shellholder, not 1 turn.
3. If you expand the case mouth without the powder thrower but instead use the orignal top plug on the expander die and the die backed off 1/4 turn from the shellholder do you get sufficient case mouth expansion?

If the answer to #3 is "yes", but the same setup with the powder thrower does not give you sufficient case mouth flare then a possible solution is to either carefully grind (or preferably turn on a lathe) a few thou off the mouth of the expander die (make sure to keep it square). That will allow the die to be turned down further into the press and let the expander plug to go further into the case and give you more flare.
 
The noe powder thru expanding plug works well. The Lee Universal Case Expanding Die is good also but doesn't have the powder-through capability.
 
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