Which .458 cartridge
- Thread starter -JD-
- Start date
One step further, and chamber it for 450 Ackley. then you can use 458 Win Mag and 458 Lott in it, like a 22 using shorts, longs, and long rifles. - dan
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- New Scotland
So once we boil off all the water, you have parts that, on the face, are designed for a 458 Win Mag. Straight off, I would ditch the idea of using 450 Marlin. You've got too much action for that short little cartridge. Same with the 458 American (damn near the same thing as the 450 Marlin but based on Win Mag brass).
Now, there's no reason that you couldn't use a 458 with 350 or 400gr bullets to hunt deer and moose. You could shoot Speer 350gr softpoints at 2200 all day long and it wouldn't wear you out and I certainly wouldn't feel bad about using that on either deer or moose, overkill though they might be. Then you have the option to step up to a hard charging 450gr or 500gr load if you get out after something really big.
I've got nothing against building a short 45 caliber in a handy little rifle, but this action probably isn't the best candidate for that.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Regarding reaming 7 rem mag or 300 win mag for 458x2, yes that is something to consider. However this reaming step is wholly dependant on the taper of the parent case. When you arrive at 375 h&h, 416 rem mag, 458 win mag or 458 Lott, this reaming step is superfluous.
And I would myself never consider a long action BLR chambered in 458 win mag or 458 Lott.
There's no lack of previous long action BLR rifle owners in example 30-06, that find the fully open action, the back of the bolt uncomfortably close to thier aiming eye.
This effect would be enhanced if you found yourself shooting uphill in the hunting field. You rarely hear of BLR short action rifle hunters complaining about this possible condition.
Just my 2 bits.
And I would myself never consider a long action BLR chambered in 458 win mag or 458 Lott.
There's no lack of previous long action BLR rifle owners in example 30-06, that find the fully open action, the back of the bolt uncomfortably close to thier aiming eye.
This effect would be enhanced if you found yourself shooting uphill in the hunting field. You rarely hear of BLR short action rifle hunters complaining about this possible condition.
Just my 2 bits.
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All reasonable points... but...
If you are specifically looking for heavier .45/70 performance specifically, but in a bolt action rifle, then the short .458's are an option. In my case, this is mostly a carry rifle while guiding for bears, I will likely shoot some of my own game with the rifle, but it will get carried a whole lot more than shot. The circumstances in which I will use it absolutely does not require .458 WM or Lott performance. I will have the rifle back at the end of this week or start of next week and will give it a good review and will post pics on this thread.
I was having the same thoughts. From where I'm sitting it seems that if you've got a long action then you might as well make it a long action cartridge.
Is there anything to gain from using a long action? I know it is a common thing for guys to use long actions with short action cartridges and long sleek bullets (284win and 6.5x284 with heavier, high BC bullets for example) but I don't know enough about 45cal rifles to know if that same thought pattern applies in a useful way here?
I at one time had the thought of doing a longer version of the .458WSM, the shortest one on the left which I did do on a Marlin 1895. I even still have a Rem .338RUM that was intended for a longer version but life got in the way. These are all on the .300RUM cases in .458.
Case lengths are 2.10-2.25-2.50 and 2.80. I was going to do the 2.50 as even the wsm in a bolt gun could be pushed further than the Marlin.
Case lengths are 2.10-2.25-2.50 and 2.80. I was going to do the 2.50 as even the wsm in a bolt gun could be pushed further than the Marlin.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
If he had a short action then I would 100% be onside with the shorter cartridge. But if he's got a Model 70 then the damned thing is the same size whether you're packing a 308 or 458 Lott so boxing the mag and putting a short cartridge in there seems silly to me. I suppose a person could go with a 458 American or 450 Marlin in the long action and have all the flexibility in the world to seat the bullets out longer, but bullets like the Speer 300, 350, and 400gr run anywhere from .810" to .970" so it's not like they have a ton of intrusion into the case...or shank to get inside the neck. Even with minimal seating depth of .4" inside the case you don't have an OAL over 2.5" so you just end up with a ton of real estate in teh magazine to deal with.
Now, if we were talking a little Model 7, a Model 600, or something crazy like a Mannlicher-Schönauer then, well, why not go short?
My deal was that I specifically wanted to duplicated .45/70 performance in a bolt action rifle. The only rifle that I had available was a 7 Rem Mag. I mocked up some dummy rounds at 2.700" and tried them in Mag by cycling them through the magazine by short stroking and they fed and ejected perfectly. The smith radiused the feed ramp to avoid issues with a flat(ish) meplat bullets. The extra half inch of receiver means nothing to me... my best choices were .450 Marlin or .458 American, I went with Marlin and had no problem rounding up components. I will have the rifle back next week and can give it a good work out at the range and perhaps on a bear, between clients.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't know exactly how or why is it, but, in my 458x2 the powder choice IMR-3031 gives this cartridge a "cannon like" throaty boom. Sounds weird. But I believe it's got a specific sound signature.
458 Win Mag
Stay with the 458 Win Mag. Lots of different Bullets and weights to use ! Brass readily available. - JMO RJ
Stay with the 458 Win Mag. Lots of different Bullets and weights to use ! Brass readily available. - JMO RJ
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Going with 458x2 American, can't think of an easier wildcat to form from factory 458 win mag. And at every brass bucket at rifle ranges are plenty of H&H magnum casings free for the pickings. What one saves on new brass purchases, one can put towards more powder, primers, bullets.
I got my Ruger M77 Mark II Stainless .450 Marlin back, and it achieved what I was looking for, namely a handy, easy-carrying, mild(ish) bear thumper. The rifle is well balanced with the Bob Jury barrel cut to 20", the 12 twist is tighter than necessary but it is what I could get. The rifle came in at basically 9 pounds even, in the B&C stock and with three rounds loaded. The recoil is very pleasant, more of a push than a kick, with a pleasing mellow "boom." The scope is a Bushnell AR 1-6x24 Illuminated, I was looking for a quick acquisition optic, and this one is quite nice for the money. I did a somewhat rough zero at 50 yards and found the rifle very enjoyable to shoot. There was initially a little hitch in the feeding, not enough to jam up but irritating. The lip on the flat meplat on the Speer 350's was catching on the way up, so I turned them into RN's with some judicious filing and they fed and ejected perfectly there after. For SAG, I put out a box and quick stepped perpendicular while cycling and firing through a magazine and things went splendidly... no issues with the 2.700" loads in the long action. Mission accomplished... I saw 15 bears last night including one in my boat, we are fully underway and batting "1000" thus far.
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I am researching a short action 458 as well, 450 Marlin or 458-2, dies seem hard to get for the 458-2, brass seems hard to find for the Marlin. I will see what I can get first before committing. I have decided I don't like levers but I want a 45-70 type bolt action, I already have a Ruger in 450bm so more of want than a need.
Looks awesome Hoyt! Looks like I shoots great too! Job well done.
I’m still trying to make up my mind, lots of good suggestions, just trying to think of what configuration and caliber I want. Originally thought I wanted a carbine but I already have a bunch of those since we mostly hunt in pretty think bush here. Now I’m kinda leaning towards more of a classic sporter with a 22” barrel in 458wm. Decisions, decisions…
I’m still trying to make up my mind, lots of good suggestions, just trying to think of what configuration and caliber I want. Originally thought I wanted a carbine but I already have a bunch of those since we mostly hunt in pretty think bush here. Now I’m kinda leaning towards more of a classic sporter with a 22” barrel in 458wm. Decisions, decisions…
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Very nice choices here!
And if you ever get into a target rich environment such as wild boar, you won't put yourself into the hospital getting to the bottom of 20 factory rounds of a Win Mag in three minutes.
