Canada Receives First Tranche of Sig Sauer P320 Handguns from MD Charlton
- Thread starter CV32
- Start date
- Location
- calgary alberta
Hoping for our guys sake that Sig has worked out the problems with these guns.
I think they've procured the version with the thumb safety, so when stuff them into holsters designed for a completely different gun and pull the trigger, they don't shoot themselves in the leg.
Sig holsters... designed for the P320.
So one of those el cheapo Serpa knockoffs? They should have thrown some business to Grey Fox. Thats what the Dwyer Hill guys are using for the 320's
This.
The conventional army could barely wrap its head around the decocker on the P226 as it became more prevalent towards the end Afghanistan. Zero chance this is issued without the M17/M18 manual safety, and frankly, based on the skill level of the vast majority who will carry this, it's for the best.
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Is this the same P320RX we just bought as the M17/M18, or are there some unique Canadian twists on it? Toying with attempting a couple DIY's if I can get bare triggerpacks... (Under US law, the P320 FCG is the "keystone" piece, the serialed "registered component" if you will.)
Sub-contract thru Safariland I believe ...
The C22 has no manual safety…It looks like they are being issued with Safariland ALS/SLS holsters as well. I don’t for the life of me understand why everyone is so crazy about having a safety on a duty pistol.
Will update as soon as I get the course done.
Will update as soon as I get the course done.
Because soldiers have a tendency to jam pistols in tac vest mag pouches and the sort, and the level of ongoing training is so low, that most folks with be uncomfortable walking around with a round up the spout with no safety.
The number of pistol related NDs I was witness to was off the charts. Unless the CAF is ready to do a complete overhaul of their level of seriousness related to pistol training, I think this will be a slow motion train wreck.
most are institutionalized. When pistol are not in use, they need to stay inside holster. period. They shouldn't be sitting around - unlike other small arms.
The problem is more of that the Big green seems to have somewhat a holster problem with the BHP -it was a doctrinal problem inherited from decades ago ( BHP is a product of the 30's - the manual of arms, they way people carried and deployed pistols were very different from now) but things are getting better as more people with operational experience are reaching leadership positions. Also more people who are engaged in sports shooting like IPSC
The actual handling of pistol other than shooting is very much neglected - people are spoon fed like babies in pistol qualification, much like a gun club booth shooting. But most actually carry a pistol more than shooting, but the "carrying part" is not very much talked about unless people are employed in CP and other stuff.
What it needs to be done - pistol training and PWT should mandatorily incorporate holster draw and reholstering. You can't just show up without a way to carry a holster. Holster and pistol must always be issued together. The holster IS the safety for the pistol.
Also the entire PWT for pistol is outdated. Shooting pistol in kneeling at 25m....
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A buddy told me many years ago that they had some Sig 225 pistols if I remember correctly ? and they had lots of problems with them . I figured they would go the way of the Glock 19 or 17 .
He was a weapon's Tec with the Canadian Armed Forces .
He was a weapon's Tec with the Canadian Armed Forces .
The holster aspect is often neglected.
What I find grating sometimes is the culture created courtesy of Glock whereby suddenly a manual safety is a bad thing.
The problem is that the vast majority of folks who don a sidearm in the CAF are the furthest thing away from IPSC I can think of. It’s practically a status symbol, and that isn’t changing anytime soon. While I agree training and a holster properly designed for the weapon are incredibly important, after 25 years in the RegF as Combat Engineer, I have zero faith in the system to actually follow through on meaningful training adaptation. So why not just put a safety on the damn thing. The order of operation for an M17 with a safety is damn near the same as a C7. The BHP magazine safety was the major issue for it. Folks were taught to reinsert a magazine to lower the hammer. Add a bunch of training atrophy and you get a bunch on NDs because of it.
Don't know about 225's, but 226's were 100% used in SF....
I never heard any complaints about the 225 (MPs and CPP still use them) other than it was a single stack to fit smaller
hands.
226 was/is predominantly with CANSOF, but there are a bunch of others like the Navy who also use them.
The decision for CANSOF to trial the Glock isn’t surprising considering the conventional army went with the P320. I say this with my tongue in my cheek as that philosophy applied to a bunch of things besides small arms.
The austrian army has been using glock for like 40 years? So pistol with no safety is not an issue. The brits are on Glock too. The problem is that most militaries up to the relatively recent think of holsters as just a "bag" instead of a safety device. Do you need special skill and practice to take something out of a bag...NO! Here we go why we have a problem.
The black badge course took like 3 days now? It is really not super magical to teach someone draw properly from holster if the trainer knows what it is doing.
The problem is like there are so much stuff going on we are just adding more competency of a secondary wpn to a basket of stuff to the NCO. We don't want people who need to read PAM before teaching when it comes to pistol, it should be like TCCC or even combat first aid kinda thing. We don't need a lot, but a few experts running around to qualify people on this. Teach the right thing - fast and furiously, vs having a bunch of people who only do it occasionally and they just follow PAM without knowing the "why", just because the inherited risk of pistol ( and the less "time" spent on it by many). It ends up they teach the wrong thing with BS explanation, and bad habits could be multiply folded when things got lost in translation.
We should not just hand someone a pistol from a box, and make they shoot bulls eye and tell them "you are qualified" and then get them to put the pistols back into a box! This actually make people less confident and get nervous with pistols. I will be more happy if they spend time on drawing from holster without shooting themselves or lazing someone else, and put rounds at 10m instead of doing old PPC stuff like kneeling at 25m.
The black badge course took like 3 days now? It is really not super magical to teach someone draw properly from holster if the trainer knows what it is doing.
The problem is like there are so much stuff going on we are just adding more competency of a secondary wpn to a basket of stuff to the NCO. We don't want people who need to read PAM before teaching when it comes to pistol, it should be like TCCC or even combat first aid kinda thing. We don't need a lot, but a few experts running around to qualify people on this. Teach the right thing - fast and furiously, vs having a bunch of people who only do it occasionally and they just follow PAM without knowing the "why", just because the inherited risk of pistol ( and the less "time" spent on it by many). It ends up they teach the wrong thing with BS explanation, and bad habits could be multiply folded when things got lost in translation.
We should not just hand someone a pistol from a box, and make they shoot bulls eye and tell them "you are qualified" and then get them to put the pistols back into a box! This actually make people less confident and get nervous with pistols. I will be more happy if they spend time on drawing from holster without shooting themselves or lazing someone else, and put rounds at 10m instead of doing old PPC stuff like kneeling at 25m.
