Thanx, it happens and it takes a big person to admit it.
Bedding
- Thread starter peterdobson
- Start date
Thanx, it happens and it takes a big person to admit it.
You need to be careful with those, as I just found out with a recent ATA purchase.
One of the reasons you ''bed'' a rifle is to eliminate any movement of the receiver in its inletting. Even with a forward bedding plate, if the rest of the inletting isn't tight enough on the sides behind or even around the front of the receiver, you will eventually get movement.
When my ATA, chambered for the 6.5CM came, I took it down to its basic components I was a bit concerned with the way the rifle is held in the stock.
It isn't dangerous but it's a problem waiting to happen, which after about a hundred rounds down the tube, it did.
At first I thought it was a problem with a great older 1 inch tube, 3x12 Burris Signature, with and AO collar on the front lens. So I traded it out for a 2.5x16 Bushnell Elite with 30mm tube.
I had the same issue with wandering points of impact. First round would go where it was supposed to then mostly move from right to left.
Even with pillars, the receiver was moving in the stock inletting.
The rear receiver screw goes through a hole in front of the trigger guard and there is a pillar between the trigger guard and the receiver.
The problem with this system is that there is nothing holding the rear pillar in place and the inletting into the wood, which is quite soft, is only about 1/8 inch wide from behind the front bedding plate all the way to the rear and around the receiver.
There is appx 1/32 in of slop all the way around the receiver and the bottom is flat.
When bedding receivers such as this, all of the slop on the sides/front/rear has to be eliminated. IMHO.
I bedded the bottom/front/sides of the receiver, over the bedding plate and all the way back and around the rear receiver screw area, as well as all the way around the rear of the receiver, which doesn't have a tang to bed and reduce rear end sideways play.
Aya tried to overcome this movement with a multi purpose spring plate, which is part of the trigger guard but it doesn't work well.
I know your receiver is different but again, IMHO, it doesn't hold the receiver well enough and requires different bedding tactics.
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Guntech tells it like it should be. The recoil should be taken up by the metal recoil bar inletted into the stock, when the recoil lug on the receiver is up against it, that is if it has one.
Otherwise, the recoil should be taken up at the front of the receiver, behind the recoil lug by the bedding material
Some folks only put epoxy in the area behind the recoil lug as does Remington with their wood stocks.
Any forward movement of the receiver in the bedding is curtailed by epoxy around the front edge of the receiver up against the inletting. Again, this is a personal preferrence.
I also bed it on the bottom but also on the sides. Works well for the rifles I've done.
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What about current production win. Model 70?
The only reason for using epoxy on the rear of any receiver or the tang is to inibit sideways movement or level out a poor inletting job.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I do not own any "current production" Model 70 - if they are like the ones from 1980's, then the rounded metal rear tang sits on top of or flush with the surface of the tang of the stock - so that vertical section underneath becomes important, I think - you will want clearance under there to the rear, so it can not transfer recoil to the wood - I have used a couple layers of masking tape under there - at the rear face of it - so there is an "air gap" in the epoxy bedding when the tape is removed - but that is underneath the flange of that rear tang that you can see - I do not recall any vertical surface on those at the metal rear tang, that you can see, that can transfer recoil.
A concept I usually use is to create a solid bedded area that the metal receiver sits on - where the action screws will pull down - for example, the magazine box area should typically NOT make contact with the receiver - do not want that magazine to be holding the centre of the receiver "up" when the action screws are tightened, nor do you want the rear of the magazine to be able to transfer recoil to the stock. Nor should the trigger guard / bottom metal be able to transfer recoil.
As was mentioned in a post above - you want the recoil lug on the front of the receiver to transfer recoil to the stock - no where else - so any other vertical surface needs at least one, if not two layers of masking tape, so that there is an air gap when tape is removed - shoulders on receiver around trigger, etc. - you do NOT want those areas transmitting recoil to the stock. I once owned a Model 70 Winchester in .375 H&H - perhaps made circa 1968 - it had a secondary recoil lug factory installed on the underside of the barrel - would be fussy to get BOTH recoil lugs to be bearing on the stock at the same time - but, as I understand, those are the only two areas that you want that can do that. Action screws, for example, should be in the centre of their holes or pillars - not resting against the rear of them - do NOT want those action screws to transfer recoil either - they will likely crack or split that stock if they do.
An old school concept from an acquaintance - he described bench rest type rifles that he competed with - the barrelled receiver was epoxied into a metal tube, then that tube epoxied into the stock stock - solid - not removable once the glue had set - forward part of the barrel and the rear of the receiver were not in contact with the stock at all - "free floating" - rifles were "throw away" - when barrel shot out, that was it - no possibility to replace that barrel because rear of it was epoxied into that metal tube. I doubt that idea continues, but was a "thing" some years ago about "best" way to bed a target rifle.
A concept I usually use is to create a solid bedded area that the metal receiver sits on - where the action screws will pull down - for example, the magazine box area should typically NOT make contact with the receiver - do not want that magazine to be holding the centre of the receiver "up" when the action screws are tightened, nor do you want the rear of the magazine to be able to transfer recoil to the stock. Nor should the trigger guard / bottom metal be able to transfer recoil.
As was mentioned in a post above - you want the recoil lug on the front of the receiver to transfer recoil to the stock - no where else - so any other vertical surface needs at least one, if not two layers of masking tape, so that there is an air gap when tape is removed - shoulders on receiver around trigger, etc. - you do NOT want those areas transmitting recoil to the stock. I once owned a Model 70 Winchester in .375 H&H - perhaps made circa 1968 - it had a secondary recoil lug factory installed on the underside of the barrel - would be fussy to get BOTH recoil lugs to be bearing on the stock at the same time - but, as I understand, those are the only two areas that you want that can do that. Action screws, for example, should be in the centre of their holes or pillars - not resting against the rear of them - do NOT want those action screws to transfer recoil either - they will likely crack or split that stock if they do.
An old school concept from an acquaintance - he described bench rest type rifles that he competed with - the barrelled receiver was epoxied into a metal tube, then that tube epoxied into the stock stock - solid - not removable once the glue had set - forward part of the barrel and the rear of the receiver were not in contact with the stock at all - "free floating" - rifles were "throw away" - when barrel shot out, that was it - no possibility to replace that barrel because rear of it was epoxied into that metal tube. I doubt that idea continues, but was a "thing" some years ago about "best" way to bed a target rifle.
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The new model 70s have square shaped bridges at the tang.
Thank you. Yes, the new production m70s have the same square bridges underneath the rounded tang sitting on wood.
So, I take it that you also believe there should be air space in the back of tang so it prevents recoil transfer to wood.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I suspect that what was learned about bedding on the various early and mid 1900's military guns may or may not transfer directly to more modern designs of receivers. On a Mauser 93, 96 or 98, for example - the trigger guard and magazine box are one piece. On a P14 or an m1917, the magazine box likely does "fit tight" to the receiver, but then is "loose" when it passes through the very bottom metal - can be made to push up on receiver when action screws tightened - or can be made to be "loose". All out single shot bench rest type rifles do not have that magazine issue to fuss with - but is a typical thing to sort out for a "hunting" type rifle. As posted above - the rear end of most Mauser actions are roughly a big taper - so if the recoil bearing area wood goes punky - say from gun oils or whatever - the receiver sets back under recoil - can find bent rear action screws, stocks with split at stock tang, etc. - is all caused by the recoil accepting surface at front of receiver area is giving out - hence the recommendation for an "air gap" at the very rear - if nothing else, that gives you a visual clue that the receiver has moved within that stock.
Hence, fussing with glues and pins to fix cracks or splits in wrist of a stock, without repairing the recoil area at the front of the receiver, is like deciding to paint your basement ceiling when your sewer is backing up - about nothing to do with fixing the cause of the problem - although is likely a lot of work that gets done, and might actually be needed to be done, at some future time.
Hence, fussing with glues and pins to fix cracks or splits in wrist of a stock, without repairing the recoil area at the front of the receiver, is like deciding to paint your basement ceiling when your sewer is backing up - about nothing to do with fixing the cause of the problem - although is likely a lot of work that gets done, and might actually be needed to be done, at some future time.
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There shouldn't be any recoil transfer to the the wood behind the tang "IF" the forward bedding has been done properly. If for some reason there is recoil transfer to the rear of the tang, something is wrong with the bedding and it can or will eventually lead to a stock splitting behind the tang.
Not sure if it serves as recoil lug, but Winchester bedded it. I don't know if the factory left hairline space there. I can't tell, but the barreled action comes off the stock easily.
There is a recoil lug like a K98, and it's bedded at factory.
