Building or buying the perfect gopher setup

[alpining]

...the ammo being fired is often the cheapest stuff that's available...How would a guy go about squeezing the most potential out of the cheaper bulk box ammo? ...Any other ideas? ....

This may sound crazy, but just consider it:

Usually we take our rifle, and try to find the right ammunition to pair it with to get the accuracy that we want. What about taking the bulk ammunition that you have, and finding the right rifle to pair it with?

You might well find a $200 rifle that's going to give you better accuracy (with your ammo) than anything that you can do in terms of upgrading parts or other modifications. If you buy smart, you'll probably spend less - Whole rifles tend to hold their value better compared to parts and mods.

 

[alpining]

...Additionally, CCI MiniMags round nose were producing 2" groups at 100 yards. HP's ballooned to 6" groups and were 6" to the left.

Exactly the opposite of my observations - Every rifle is a unique and beautiful snowflake!

...Last point-chasing accuracy in 22 gopher guns is a bit of a fruitless effort in many ways, owing to the constant wind and often restless nature of these varmints. ...

Agreed, especially about wind with 22LR. Even at 10mph, drift is going to seriously hamper your accuracy. Look up your drift charts if you haven't already.

Actually, if you are missing enough shots, even with cheap 22LR ammunition, it might be more economical to switch to a centerfire option (assuming that allows you to make more reliable hits).

 

[Yotarunner]

Agreed, especially about wind with 22LR. Even at 10mph, drift is going to seriously hamper your accuracy. Look up your drift charts if you haven't already.

Actually, if you are missing enough shots, even with cheap 22LR ammunition, it might be more economical to switch to a centerfire option (assuming that allows you to make more reliable hits).

That's been part of the fun for me in my sick twisted brain is to learn to make proper wind calls on the fly. With the christmas tree reticle in my scope I can have the wind figured at least quite close within a few shots then after that it's just a matter of trying to track the gusts and changing shot angles.
The centerfire or even 17 option is by far the better choice for perfect hits all the time but with components being so expensive it's not worth it for day to day shooting. Not to mention carrying my heavy barrel custom 20cal in the work truck just seems wrong haha.

 

[blakeyboy]

when younger we did some very high volume culling and sure would have been nice to have those 25 round butler creek mags with the little red button on the spring to make feeding easier, less electrical tape on the finger/thumb, always tried to find the hollow-point ammo that would match rifle or most rifles, mil-dot scopes for sighter/correction holds (not wearing out turrets dialling), x-mas tree reticles would work great for it these days to get a little better wind holds, really liked the federal blue box hollow-points I think they still make something similar, one bolt action I had loved the Remington sub-sonics and was deadly set up (ruger 77/22) but all the bolt actions like cz, savage, and even the ruger 77/22 eventually painful to keep loading and firing after long day of smashing gophers and deep into 2nd brick

currently I would be tempted by a savage a22 or ruger 10/22 with those 25 round mags with the easier loading, should be able to find acceptable accuracy with those two with some of the hollow-points around today, if they make bolt actions that take those magazine then that would be a great choice also! even more likely to get the accuracy needed, lightweight sporter barrels, Harris long swivel bipod, padded butt seat strapped around waist, fanny pack with gopher whistle and at least a brick of rounds, and a sombrero...set for an entire morning, lunch break, another brick of ammo into the fanny pack and do it again

yeah I see savage has the b22 bolt action that would take those butler creek 25 round mags, I'd just research any accuracy differences between the a22 and b22 and if the a22 can shoot with the b22 then get the semi-auto and two of those 25 round mags, they stick together and have the easy button for reloading, you can then reload 50 at a time, save the fingers, stay in the scope for sighter/correction shooting, good reticle choice on scope, keep it light barrel models for all day handling, easy to come up with the best high volume gopher set up these days, the sore fingers with little 10 round steel magazines etc. was the number one hassle back when

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Get rid of the 10-22. Semi autos do not encourage good marksmanship. Subconsciously we know there is another round waiting and so don't make the best shot. A single shot rifle will create the best marksmanship because subconsciously you know you have to make the best shot possible as there is not another round ready to go.

99% of my gopher shooting is with an olympic grade single shot target rifle. My hit percentages ran close to 70% out to 150+ yds. I use Winchester Power Point because it has decent accuracy and a huge hollow point for more consistent kills. Crap ammo and solids are not the best choice in a gopher field.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

when younger we did some very high volume culling and sure would have been nice to have those 25 round butler creek mags with the little red button on the spring to make feeding easier, less electrical tape on the finger/thumb, always tried to find the hollow-point ammo that would match rifle or most rifles, mil-dot scopes for sighter/correction holds (not wearing out turrets dialling)

I have spent days shooting a single shot target rifle against a guy with a 10-22 and 25rd mags. Over the course of the day, he was not able to fire appreciably more ammo than me. It's a tortoise and hare kind of thing. Sure the mags are great ... till they are empty. Then my single shot keeps chugging along while he is busily stripping the skin off his thumb loading mags. One is not better than the other when it comes to shooting volume.

YES, MIL-Dot reticles are da bomb in the gopher fields for quick elevation and windage corrections. You simply couldn't use the turrets in a gopher field. You'd just lose track of where the turrets were.

Last point-chasing accuracy in 22 gopher guns is a bit of a fruitless effort in many ways, owing to the constant wind and often restless nature of these varmints.

Agreed. The field is way too unpredictable and has way too many variables at play. You have no idea what the true range to the gopher is, nor exactly what the wind is doing for any given shot. Gophers stand up and expose themselves for only a few seconds at a time. You need to get on them and make the shot FAST before the disappear.

I once spent all winter diligently sorting a case of rimfire ammo by rim thickness and weight etc int little baggies of ammo that were supposedly the same. Sure the grouped nicely on paper but I quickly learned that gophers don't really care where you hit them and you will never know exactly how that ammo really performed other than HIT or MISS.

That rim thickness trick is a great idea! I will have to give that a try. Did you say it didn't make a difference in the lower grade stuff or just the high grade?

No, sorting rimfire ammo for use on gophers is a complete waste of time. I know cause I spent an entire winter sorting a case of ammo and in the end didn't notice one iota of difference or improvement in the field. You could shoot a 2" group at 50 yds and still run 100% hits on gophers. You could also have a 1/4 MOA rifle and miss most of the time if you don't understand a gopher field. It's mostly the shooter and not the rifle or ammo. A good shooter can benefit from an accurate rifle and ammo but the opposite is not true.

 

[Hmatt]

Norma tac-22 is pretty decent, my ruger American loves it, surprisingly doesn’t like federal or sk

 

[blakeyboy]

oh you can shoot all day with a single shot, might take you a few weekends longer to clear a quarter with 4000 gophers though, it's not like we were trying to find gophers to shoot and leisure pace, it was heaven quarters we were clearing that were so badly infested, you couldn't load and shoot fast enough, the single shot vs a magazine that is finger friendly to load for 1000 rounds a day would simply take you out of the scope far too many minutes in the day, for retired guys in no hurry then it will all work, take all the time you want, not like the gophers are going anywhere lol, sounds like this guy is on the clock and some landowner pressure to perform as well...single shot ain't the way to fly

 

[I Dont Care About You]

oh you can shoot all day with a single shot, might take you a few weekends longer to clear a quarter with 4000 gophers though, it's not like we were trying to find gophers to shoot and leisure pace, it was heaven quarters we were clearing that were so badly infested, you couldn't load and shoot fast enough, the single shot vs a magazine that is finger friendly to load for 1000 rounds a day would simply take you out of the scope far too many minutes in the day, for retired guys in no hurry then it will all work, take all the time you want, not like the gophers are going anywhere lol, sounds like this guy is on the clock and some landowner pressure to perform as well...single shot ain't the way to fly

I'm gonna disagree. I have 20 years experience shooting gophers in S Alberta and have never felt under gunned with my single shot. I have shot enough in a day to end up with sore fingers from working the bolt. Over the course of a day, a mag fed semi-auto is not faster than a single shot. I've experienced this first hand.

Semi-auto's are mostly good at wasting ammo, rather than producing dead gophers. I've shot against some excellent marksmen and the single shot hit rate is considerably higher than the semi-auto.

 

[Longstud]

I'm gonna disagree. I have 20 years experience shooting gophers in S Alberta and have never felt under gunned with my single shot. I have shot enough in a day to end up with sore fingers from working the bolt. Over the course of a day, a mag fed semi-auto is not faster than a single shot. I've experienced this first hand.

Semi-auto's are mostly good at wasting ammo, rather than producing dead gophers. I've shot against some excellent marksmen and the single shot hit rate is considerably higher than the semi-auto.

Gonna agree with blakeyboy on this one. If you think semi autos are just an ammo waster its cuz youve never shot a good one. Mags are cheap and most serious semi shooters have a fair number of them. My bolts are not more accurate at 50 yards and only notice the difference once they get beyond the 200 yard mark. I have more than one high end bolt gun. I shoot a lot, almost daily at my residence. A well built custom semi in a gopher field with a good driver will easily shoot a pile more gophers than a single shot. In a novice shooter your correct but a semi skilled shooter with a quality semi will beat any single shot shooter, An experienced shooter will reload a Ruger mag in short order. I have 14 Ruger mags and Im pretty sure theyd be loaded when I went hunting. Yes I have hunted Thompson ground squirrels back in the late 80S. Three crazy gun nut Ontarians drove to Saskatchewan and ran outah ammo in two days AND CLEANED OUT EVERY HARDWARE STORE AND GUNSHOPOP IN SASKATCHEWAN WITHIN A HUNDRED MILES.

 

[blakeyboy]

ya I'm seeing simple math here, each shot with single shot are you staying in the scope? single shot bolt gun? blind reaching for ammo and feeding? you might do alright but still a ton of steps in the shot process that could be done by the gun itself, that would add up in a day and 1000 rounds, but if accuracy is there with the semi and you have twin 25 round mags attached to each other that are super easy to reload then...when you get out of the scope it's to efficiently load 50 at once then every group of gophers you sit over you deal with in the scope without taking your hand off the trigger, easy math, you pick up and move to the next sit and clean it out without leaving the scope or hand off the trigger, you'd be on the 3rd sit by the time the single shot guy was finishing up the 1st sit

pretty sure war history can explain it quicker, bolt actions roasted the muzzle loading single shots, then semi-auto roasted the bolt actions

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I can only lead you to the truth. I can't make you believe it.

My buddy with the built 10-22 eventually gave in and got himself a target bolt action because he was tired of wasting ammo for such a low hit ratio.

LOL War? What was the statistic from Vietnam, that the infantry wasted 10,000 rounds for every kill, while the snipers averaged 1.5 rounds per kill? You'll note that snipers still use bolt action rifles. If you want to blaze thousands of rounds into the grass for little effect, that's up to you. Personally I'd prefer to actually kill the gophers.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

The cheapness of the ammo we typically use, plus wind, is a pretty good equalizer that significantly reduces the utility of using an uber accurate 22. Average gun will get the job done fine at 75 yards or less.

 

[Mystic Precision]

As someone who has used and tuned many 10/22's over the years, I can certainly see where the reputation for mediocre accuracy stems from. MANY factory rifles shoot poorly, even when time and effort is taken to get some decent ammo. Stock inletting, barrel clamps, heavy creepy triggers can all lead to a frustrating rifle to shoot accurately in 'untuned' form. And some factory barrels just don't want to shoot.

however, the 10/22 can be tuned to shoot very well and nip at the heels of even the more expensive bolt rifles when distance shooting is desired.

Improper bedding is likely where most of the accuracy woes stem... although, there have been 'match' barrels sold in large quantities that really weren't much better then the factory pipes they replaced. So there is no shortage of disappointment on the accuracy front.

But there are great quality barrels out there and now more options in stocks/chassis leaning towards accuracy

My current franken 10/22 uses a current production carbine barrel, factory plastic stock, my old 10/22 receiver/trigger - with proper bedding (some stock work was needed), it is shooting a better grade of Fed HV around 1.5" at 100m which is all I need for the PD hunting I hope to do in Aug.

I have shot this out to 180yds and it would be possible to hit a 'pop can' at that distance for sure... too far to be effective on game though

For pop cans out to 100yds, I don't see this 10/22 hit rate being any better nor worst then my other bolt rimfires.... cause their accuracy is near identical.... with the ammo I would want to use for varminting

Jerry

 

[I Dont Care About You]

The cheapness of the ammo we typically use, plus wind, is a pretty good equalizer that significantly reduces the utility of using an uber accurate 22. Average gun will get the job done fine at 75 yards or less.

I use Winchester Power Point, for the giant hollow point and the decent accuracy. It's not what I'd call "expensive" ammo. I've made loads of hits past 150 yds and some out to 220 yds. At 75 yds it basically never misses a headshot. An uber accurate target rifle is a thing of beauty in a gopher field.

 

[*lawrence]

I think there are too many variables to come up with a perfect rifle for this application. If you sitting with a shooting bench then a HB would seem to be a good option. If there are houses and livestock in the vicinity then a center fire is often not an option. If you are shooting prone and walking around shooting off hand then for most people, a lighter barrel is more practical. Wind is often a factor also and of course in many situations gophers can appear from 5 feet out. Additionally short barrels are loud especially with HV rimfire ammo.

So my 'all rounder' of choice/compromise is a Brno Model 2e, with a fixed 6x Leupold scope, a Harris bipod and a sling. Plus 12 x 10 rd magazines in a waist pouch with about 300 rounds of loose ammo. I shoot Remington Yellow Jackets exclusively but the top end for them is about 100-125 yards. Accuracy is fine and it makes no difference if I aim for the left eye and hit off a little in the right eye, the result is the same.

For shooting a little farther from prone I use a CZ 452 HB in .17 with a Leupold 10x scope and a Harris bipod. For further than that if the terrain allows then a Rem 700 with a custom HB in .223 topped by a Leupold 10x scope.

The Brno enjoys the most time engaging targets out of the three.

 

[cement head]

I can only lead you to the truth. I can't make you believe it.

My buddy with the built 10-22 eventually gave in and got himself a target bolt action because he was tired of wasting ammo for such a low hit ratio.

LOL War? What was the statistic from Vietnam, that the infantry wasted 10,000 rounds for every kill, while the snipers averaged 1.5 rounds per kill? You'll note that snipers still use bolt action rifles. If you want to blaze thousands of rounds into the grass for little effect, that's up to you. Personally I'd prefer to actually kill the gophers.

We or I understand what you are trying to say but the others just want to kill as many gophers in a day as they can. when I teach someone how to shoot it is usually with a single shot 22. trigger pull sight picture and of course safety . we have ground hogs in Ontario . I'm assuming that they are a lot larger than your gophers in Alberta. when they run you can see the fat jiggle . I haven't shot any in ages . nowadays the ticks are so bad I don't know if I'd even venture out in a field in Ontario on a farm . it was a kids camp in the summer where I used to hunt . they trained younger girls how to ride hunter jumper horses .

so he wanted the ground hogs dead. I got 8 or 9 in about an hour and a half one day . I've used 6x5x55 22 223 12 gauge and one time 308 . that was many years ago . I might stop out to the farm sometime in the future . maybe he has coyotes . heck I could park in the lane way and nail them . as for a 10-22 not being any good I have shot lots of them with one . maybe not at 150 yards maybe 80 to 100 yards but that was goo enough for this guy . my favorite 22 ammo back in the day was the Remington yellow jacket . big hollow point and 1500 fps. the ground hogs can hit about 30 lbs in weight . sitting in an alfalfa field munching .

 

[Mystic Precision]

ON Ground Hog - they would be called yellow bellied Marmots in BC.... aka Marmots, woodchucks. Think Pux Phil... cat like in size.

AB Prairie dogs - Columbian Ground Squirrel in BC aka gopher... similar in size to a large squirrel (w/o the big tail)... or a pop can.

Jerry

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

My absolute favorite gopher ammo is Winchester Power Points. Great accuracy and great terminal ballistics. I have used target ammo in a heavy barreled bolt gun, and the hits were good, results not so much. Round noses at 1050 don't do so well.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

ON Ground Hog - they would be called yellow bellied Marmots in BC.... aka Marmots, woodchucks. Think Pux Phil... cat like in size.

AB Prairie dogs - Columbian Ground Squirrel in BC aka gopher... similar in size to a large squirrel (w/o the big tail)... or a pop can.

Jerry

In Alberta, they are Richardson's Ground Squirrels