Overall Length Is The Problem.

[Quigly]

I just recently purchased a Henry rifle in 45 Long Colt. I thought I could load the same round that I load for my Redhawk for it. However, I discovered that this round will not cycle through the Henry, because it is too long. It hangs up in the tubular magazine.
About the bullet. It's the Lee cast 300 grain bullet with two crimp groves. Currently, I'm crimping on the groove that gives me the greatest overall length, to reduce pressure. The rounds are loaded to max. I have determined these are safe in the Ruger, because I worked up the load with no signs of pressure.
I was planning to to work up the load with the Henry, but because, it won't cycle, I have to go to the crimp groove that will reduce the overall length.
My question is, do you think that seating to the other groove will increase pressure significantly, if I try loading to max. Ideally, I would like to hear from those that are familiar with this bullet. However, all constructive comments would be welcome.
I understand this is objective. It is what it is. Pressure will increase. The question is, how much, and can the action handle it.
I want to use the rifle for deer hunting. Because it has a 16.5" barrel I am trying to wring out every bit of velocity I can. However, I will
not sacrifice safety for velocity's sake.

 

[45stomp]

I recommend reducing the charge, an extra 75 fps will make no difference on game performance.
I have used the lee bullet, it's a great performer on game. In the past couple decades, I went from pushing 325 grains at 1600fps, to a 280 at 1100, and I can see no difference in killing power. Put the bullet in the right spot and get out your skinning knife. Horsepower is no substitute for shot placement, and a 45 colt will never be flat shooting, so keep things below redline and enjoy the extended brass life, and reduced recoil that comes with that.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stomp

 

[Potashminer]

I just recently purchased a Henry rifle in 45 Long Colt. I thought I could load the same round that I load for my Redhawk for it. However, I discovered that this round will not cycle through the Henry, because it is too long. It hangs up in the tubular magazine.
About the bullet. It's the Lee cast 300 grain bullet with two crimp groves. Currently, I'm crimping on the groove that gives me the greatest overall length, to reduce pressure. The rounds are loaded to max. I have determined these are safe in the Ruger, because I worked up the load with no signs of pressure.
I was planning to to work up the load with the Henry, but because, it won't cycle, I have to go to the crimp groove that will reduce the overall length.
My question is, do you think that seating to the other groove will increase pressure significantly, if I try loading to max. Ideally, I would like to hear from those that are familiar with this bullet. However, all constructive comments would be welcome.
I understand this is objective. It is what it is. Pressure will increase. The question is, how much, and can the action handle it.
I want to use the rifle for deer hunting. Because it has a 16.5" barrel I am trying to wring out every bit of velocity I can. However, I will
not sacrifice safety for velocity's sake.

I have not tried what you are doing, but wanted to try to create "one load" for several 30-06 chambered rifles here - was many different lengths from bolt face to lands - so if bullet "jump" is important to accuracy, was simply not possible with this selection - so had to try a particular load and see if it was "good enough" for any of the rifles - will not be "best" for any particular one.

My suggestion to you would be to start over and "work up" a load for your second firearm - yes, the nominal chambering might be the same - but is not really a sensible basis, to me, to use a load worked up in one firearm, in another firearm. Each appear to be their own experience. For those who want to point to factory loads all "working" in every arm of that chambering - the ammo makers also have pressure testing devices that they use to establish various pressures developed - and I do not know of any home hand loaders who own those pressure testing machines. We all work from "clues" as to whether our product is "safe to use" in the arm that we worked up for - we do not typically know or use absolute, accurate pressure numbers - just pressure effects.

Perhaps 1980's - a friend and I each had 308 Win rifles. One of us could chamber the other's fired brass - the other way around would not fit - those chambers were different to each other - yet both of us could use and fire any factory ammo that we could get.

 

[Quigly]

I have not tried what you are doing, but wanted to try to create "one load" for several 30-06 chambered rifles here - was many different lengths from bolt face to lands - so if bullet "jump" is important to accuracy, was simply not possible with this selection - so had to try a particular load and see if it was "good enough" for any of the rifles - will not be "best" for any particular one.

My suggestion to you would be to start over and "work up" a load for your second firearm - yes, the nominal chambering might be the same - but is not really a sensible basis, to me, to use a load worked up in one firearm, in another firearm. Each appear to be their own experience. For those who want to point to factory loads all "working" in every arm of that chambering - the ammo makers also have pressure testing devices that they use to establish various pressures developed - and I do not know of any home hand loaders who own those pressure testing machines. We all work from "clues" as to whether our product is "safe to use" in the arm that we worked up for - we do not typically know or use absolute, accurate pressure numbers - just pressure effects.

Perhaps 1980's - a friend and I each had 308 Win rifles. One of us could chamber the other's fired brass - the other way around would not fit - those chambers were different to each other - yet both of us could use and fire any factory ammo that we could get.

Thank you. I will definately be working up the load with the new overall length. I want to take short cuts but I know better. It's good to hear sage advice from someone else, that makes one think twice.

 

[Quigly]

I recommend reducing the charge, an extra 75 fps will make no difference on game performance.
I have used the lee bullet, it's a great performer on game. In the past couple decades, I went from pushing 325 grains at 1600fps, to a 280 at 1100, and I can see no difference in killing power. Put the bullet in the right spot and get out your skinning knife. Horsepower is no substitute for shot placement, and a 45 colt will never be flat shooting, so keep things below redline and enjoy the extended brass life, and reduced recoil that comes with that.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stomp

That is sage advice, thank you. I wanted to take a shortcut, but I know better. It's nice to hear it from someone else for confirmation.

 

[Canuck65]

You really should be developing a separate load for each firearm and purpose. It likely will be safe, but don't chance it - reduce your load and work up with the new seating depth until you get the velocity and groups you're satisfied with. Bullet shape can definitely affect feeding in lever guns - this is pretty common, but should be easy enough to overcome with some trial and error.

 

[Quigly]

You really should be developing a separate load for each firearm and purpose. It likely will be safe, but don't chance it - reduce your load and work up with the new seating depth until you get the velocity and groups you're satisfied with. Bullet shape can definitely affect feeding in lever guns - this is pretty common, but should be easy enough to overcome with some trial and error.

Thank you, I will take your advice and do it right.

 

[dan belisle]

Had the same length issues trying to use my Blackhawk 45 Colt loads in my Win 1873. As for pushing the bullet further in the case, yes, you will need to reduce the powder charge to keep pressures similar. - dan

 

[Quigly]

Had the same length issues trying to use my Blackhawk 45 Colt loads in my Win 1873. As for pushing the bullet further in the case, yes, you will need to reduce the powder charge to keep pressures similar. - dan

Thank you. Will do. I wanted to take a shortcut, because I have a bunch loaded up already. Thanks, for the advice.

 

[Potashminer]

Almost all the theory will say that pressing that bullet in deeper into the case will increase the breech pressure - but no way to know "how much" or "how much can your rifle take?". But might be similar in a revolver - how does shooter know all the cylinders are the same? - was an article in Handloader Magazine where Brian Pierce showed significant difference among cylinders in a revolver that he tested with precise plug gauges - ended up to get them all reamed to be the same.

Most of us would rather sneak up on that pressure thing - a bit at a time - looking for signs or symptoms - rather than make the big jump and just "try it". However, is possible that the powder load that you used MIGHT let the bullet be seated deeper, in a fashion that your rifle can take. I never did so - way too chicken to risk breaking my stuff - just maybe overly cautious old fart to like to take little steps - even though end result might be the same.

 

[Quigly]

Almost all the theory will say that pressing that bullet in deeper into the case will increase the breech pressure - but no way to know "how much" or "how much can your rifle take?". But might be similar in a revolver - how does shooter know all the cylinders are the same? - was an article in Handloader Magazine where Brian Pierce showed significant difference among cylinders in a revolver that he tested with precise plug gauges - ended up to get them all reamed to be the same.

Most of us would rather sneak up on that pressure thing - a bit at a time - looking for signs or symptoms - rather than make the big jump and just "try it". However, is possible that the powder load that you used MIGHT let the bullet be seated deeper, in a fashion that your rifle can take. I never did so - way too chicken to risk breaking my stuff - just maybe overly cautious old fart to like to take little steps - even though end result might be the same.

Stop that. You are not allowed to be sowing doubt on my plan to creep up on that nasty pressure. I will do it, no I won't, yes I will, no, yes. The devil made me do it.

 

[4n2t0]

Seat the bullet deeper, done.

Is there an increase in pressure? Sure, but I've never, ever, seen a safe pistol load (do your homework) go from safe to kaboom because of a shorter OAL. I load many max loads, in various calibres, with various powders, without a care in regards to short(er) OAL's. Load to a length that works. With all that said, always be on the lookout for signs of extreme pressure and adjust the charge weight appropriately once apparent.

I keep posting this, hopefully one day it will stick...

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...26-Load-data-for-40sw?p=19631422#post19631422

Just look at those cartridges! LMAO!

 

[oneadam12]

You don’t say what the charge is but say loading to ‘max’. If you are within published data for that bullet and powder I don’t think you have to worry.

As someone said above, the extra 75 fps obsession with a max load is something that isn’t going to make difference for all but the most extreme games. Ken Waters almost always found something a full grain short of ‘max’ was best accuracy. And the deer don’t know the difference.