sand bagging? or sandbagging? I am not sure where that term came from, but I have seen it many times. I am more experienced with the trap sandbaggers, and I remember more than a few who admitted to deliberatly not taking a yardage punch when they calculated that the money payout was not enough to warrant the penaty. I remember some who forgot how to shoot when they could not buy a part of themselves in the calcutta. I remember once when I took a cheap chunk of engraved tin and a yard with no money on the line and being told that it was a bad move. Maybe it was? Now I am approaching 60 and have not registered for nearly 3 decades but now even when I go to a friggen fun shoot I have to stand near the back, and the same sandbaggers are standing a lot closer and picking up money in the lower classes. BUT the HOA usually goes to a AA-27 yarder. I have no problems with that as long as it is my choice if I want to enter the big pot. I would not even dream of suggesting a shoot where the AA-27s were not allowed. I think all shoots would be more fun if not so much money was involved and the goal was just to improve your score and have fun breaking things.
Registered Skeet Shooters...Would you Attend?
- Thread starter Neera
- Start date
sand bagging? or sandbagging? I am not sure where that term came from, but I have seen it many times. I am more experienced with the trap sandbaggers, and I remember more than a few who admitted to deliberatly not taking a yardage punch when they calculated that the money payout was not enough to warrant the penaty. I remember some who forgot how to shoot when they could not buy a part of themselves in the calcutta. I remember once when I took a cheap chunk of engraved tin and a yard with no money on the line and being told that it was a bad move. Maybe it was? Now I am approaching 60 and have not registered for nearly 3 decades but now even when I go to a friggen fun shoot I have to stand near the back, and the same sandbaggers are standing a lot closer and picking up money in the lower classes. BUT the HOA usually goes to a AA-27 yarder. I have no problems with that as long as it is my choice if I want to enter the big pot. I would not even dream of suggesting a shoot where the AA-27s were not allowed. I think all shoots would be more fun if not so much money was involved and the goal was just to improve your score and have fun breaking things.
I think at any given shoot the shooter should not be required to pay for anything more than cost of targets and trophys. Anything more should be optional and if the shooter wishes to gamble, it should be gambling and the shooter's choice to bet his money in his class or go for the whole pot. Certain shoot costs should be mandatory, but a lot of shooters just want to shoot and not pay to entice money shooters to attend. If the pot is not big enough, the top dogs have the choice not to attend.
The games have to be for those who afford it or chose to pay. Put on a good fun shoot is how you keep shooters comming back, not the return on their money. I started back to sporting clays after a long absence. I am in no way threatening to any of the masters. I took a day off from my part time retirement job and paid an entry fee more than I would have made and burned 8 boxes of AAs and came second in my class an got back 4 boxes of cheaper super target loads as a prize. A squad mate who had 10 less hits than me won his class and got a $200.00 sleeping bag. He will be back for sure. At lunch time they fed me. I had fun!
When I got home my wife asked how I did. I told her I won 4 boxes of ammo.
She knows the mathbut she knows I am ahead 4 boxes that I will not have to pay for next time I practice.
IF....you are registered and something below an AAA/AA class shooter would you be more inclined...or less inclined to attend a shoot that was reserved for A class and down only? NO AA/AAA permitted in ANY gun in this one.
I fit that category (shoot registered targets and classed below AAA/AA).
NO, I am not interested in attending a shoot were AA/AAA shooters would not be permitted. My second skeet competition was the 2006 Ducks Unlimited match in Kingston. I was on a squad with a fellow by the name of John Kapron and a father and son team from the Chicago area (forget their names). It didn't take many stations for me to realize that they were definitely in a different class than I was. These guys encouraged me when I broke the targets, and pointed out mistakes that I made when I missed, e.g. lifting my head off the stock. I listened to what they had to say, I watched their foot positions, hold points, break points, etc. I learned a lot that weekend and, despite the rain, had an enjoyable time.
I planned on returning to the 2007 match but was out of the country. Hope to back this year. I'm not in this sport for $$: I do it for the 're-creation', good friends, good times, an opportunity to learn, to challenge myself to do better than the last match. Cannot imagine attending a match without the best shooters being present.
I fit that category (shoot registered targets and classed below AAA/AA).
NO, I am not interested in attending a shoot were AA/AAA shooters would not be permitted. My second skeet competition was the 2006 Ducks Unlimited match in Kingston. I was on a squad with a fellow by the name of John Kapron and a father and son team from the Chicago area (forget their names). It didn't take many stations for me to realize that they were definitely in a different class than I was. These guys encouraged me when I broke the targets, and pointed out mistakes that I made when I missed, e.g. lifting my head off the stock. I listened to what they had to say, I watched their foot positions, hold points, break points, etc. I learned a lot that weekend and, despite the rain, had an enjoyable time.
I planned on returning to the 2007 match but was out of the country. Hope to back this year. I'm not in this sport for $$: I do it for the 're-creation', good friends, good times, an opportunity to learn, to challenge myself to do better than the last match. Cannot imagine attending a match without the best shooters being present.
Not alot of respondents. But it does sound like if there's a desire to try to do something a little different for the lower classes ...where the majority of the shooters are...it would be preferred if it happens concurrently during a shoot open to all. I can live with that...as long as they don't have to pay into a mandatory purse for the top classes.
Just wondered if a "lower class" invitational type shoot might fly. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of one. Probably never will.
Just wondered if a "lower class" invitational type shoot might fly. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of one. Probably never will.
I'm curious Brad...you run alot of shoots.
Ever see a time when all money stayed in class...AND...all added money divided up into the classes as well?
I'm grasping here.
Divide the total added money by the number of events.
Then added money split up per event as follows:
AAA/AA/A....40%
B.............30%
C.............20%
D..............10% (for other than the 12 ga)
D 12 ga........5%
E 12 ga........5%
Gun Champ & RU and HOA & RU are honors only (perhaps merchandise prize as well if available).
Maybe not necessarily broken down in those exact percentages but you get the idea. Ever see anything along those lines happen? I haven't.
Would it fly? Or just be a mathematical and administrative nightmare?
Ever see a time when all money stayed in class...AND...all added money divided up into the classes as well?
I'm grasping here.
Divide the total added money by the number of events.
Then added money split up per event as follows:
AAA/AA/A....40%
B.............30%
C.............20%
D..............10% (for other than the 12 ga)
D 12 ga........5%
E 12 ga........5%
Gun Champ & RU and HOA & RU are honors only (perhaps merchandise prize as well if available).
Maybe not necessarily broken down in those exact percentages but you get the idea. Ever see anything along those lines happen? I haven't.
Would it fly? Or just be a mathematical and administrative nightmare?
I think that there is a chance to make something like this work. It would have to be somewhat of an experiment to see how well it would be received.
One similar type event I can think of off the top of my head, is a Seniors event in Florida during the winter months. IIRC, only Seniors or above can shoot. I think it is a 1 gun per day type thing, and the whole event is catered towards the senior shooters.
Florida in the winter means that they are drawing from a good demographic; Senior shooters in Florida.
If I was given the task of running such a shoot I'd look along the following lines;
-Location: In a perfect world, I'd want to be drawing from a pool of 100 registered shooters who live within 90 minutes (read that GTA)
-Format: To start with, I'd run a 1 day shoot (maybe a 200, maybe a 4x50). If you find that you have a product that sells, and the attendees are receptive, look at expanding to a 2 or 3 day shoot.
-Style: I'd probably run a bare bones break even type shoot. No returned money. Break even costs for referees. Just enough of a profit margin on targets so that you aren't losing money. Maybe add either a few dollars for Champ/RU and classes, or perhaps get some sponsors to donate some prizes.
-Policy: You'd have to find a way to determine who qualified to shoot. For a 4x50 I'd go with HOA in BCDE and allow for people who were higher than B in individual guns still compete. If it was 200 or shooters choice, I'd say their gauge of choice would have to be BCDE.
-Other: For a 1 day shoot, I'd probably host a lunch, again at a break even price.
With the above, you've put together an event that should satisfy the concerns, and at the same time you assume little risk for losing money.
Would I attend? Nope, I wouldn't be welcome. If I fell within the classes that were invited, I would to and attend if I was within reasonable driving distance.
I think that if someone within the GTA was to run this format, they could make a go of it, based solely on the proximity of a large number of shooters within 60-90 minutes of driving.
Brad.
One similar type event I can think of off the top of my head, is a Seniors event in Florida during the winter months. IIRC, only Seniors or above can shoot. I think it is a 1 gun per day type thing, and the whole event is catered towards the senior shooters.
Florida in the winter means that they are drawing from a good demographic; Senior shooters in Florida.
If I was given the task of running such a shoot I'd look along the following lines;
-Location: In a perfect world, I'd want to be drawing from a pool of 100 registered shooters who live within 90 minutes (read that GTA)
-Format: To start with, I'd run a 1 day shoot (maybe a 200, maybe a 4x50). If you find that you have a product that sells, and the attendees are receptive, look at expanding to a 2 or 3 day shoot.
-Style: I'd probably run a bare bones break even type shoot. No returned money. Break even costs for referees. Just enough of a profit margin on targets so that you aren't losing money. Maybe add either a few dollars for Champ/RU and classes, or perhaps get some sponsors to donate some prizes.
-Policy: You'd have to find a way to determine who qualified to shoot. For a 4x50 I'd go with HOA in BCDE and allow for people who were higher than B in individual guns still compete. If it was 200 or shooters choice, I'd say their gauge of choice would have to be BCDE.
-Other: For a 1 day shoot, I'd probably host a lunch, again at a break even price.
With the above, you've put together an event that should satisfy the concerns, and at the same time you assume little risk for losing money.
Would I attend? Nope, I wouldn't be welcome. If I fell within the classes that were invited, I would to and attend if I was within reasonable driving distance.
I think that if someone within the GTA was to run this format, they could make a go of it, based solely on the proximity of a large number of shooters within 60-90 minutes of driving.
Brad.
Ok, not quite sure what you are getting at, but let me take a stab.
1st thing to do is eliminate AAA. It just isn't used in Canada.
So all class money stays in class. That part is simple
From there say you have $1000 to add.
Rather than Ch/RU money you add it to the classes based upon entry?
So if you ran 12/20/28/.410 and HOA, you have 5 events (or any other break down)
$1000 divided out 5 ways is $200/event
From there for each event you'd have to divide $200 by the number of shooters and add that to the class return.
If for 12ga you had 50 shooters, in this configuration
AA-7
A-8
B-11
C-14
D-6
E-4
In addition to the return money (mandatory purse) you'd also add
AA-$28
A- $32
B- $40
C- $56
D- $24
E- $16 (based on $200/50 shooters is $4/shooter)
Is that what you are getting at?
It would be pretty simple to set this up.
Brad.
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Neera, you seem to be concerned with not loosing shooters and/or keeping the numbers we have. I think that you are focused on options and purses and classes and pay outs and odds of making money back for the amount paid in and a whole bunch of other money stuff. If these are done along with a shoot, they have to fair or it will leave a sour taste for those who participate, but these things are not the most significant things that will make or break a shoot. What I think is most important is how much it will cost per target or per 100 to shoot registered targets and how pleasant the shoot is for the money paid. That is what will bring in shooters or keep shooters away.
Would I attend? Nope, I wouldn't be welcome. If I fell within the classes that were invited, I would to and attend if I was within reasonable driving distance.
I'm not sure why you say this????? Of course you'd be welcome. I'm talking open to all classes with the "rough" percentages of the added money dispersed out to all the classes.
No returned money.
Why not? Charge the somewhat "standard" $50/100. Return the "usual" $10.00 to class along with the divided up "added money" to each class as well.
Maybe run a couple other optional handi-cap events.
Provide a "pay as you go" breakfast on Sat/Sun if you have the facilities to do so.
Provide a "pay as you go" lunch...burgers/hot dogs etc.
Sat dinner is optional...pay if you want....don't if you don't. Seems more and more people might prefer not to "have to" pay for the "free" Sat dinner.
It would have to be somewhat of an experiment to see how well it would be received.
You're right. Wonder if anyone has the nerve to deviate from the "usual" program we've been seeing from place to place over the years?
I'm not sure why you say this????? Of course you'd be welcome. I'm talking open to all classes with the "rough" percentages of the added money dispersed out to all the classes.
No returned money.
Why not? Charge the somewhat "standard" $50/100. Return the "usual" $10.00 to class along with the divided up "added money" to each class as well.
Maybe run a couple other optional handi-cap events.
Provide a "pay as you go" breakfast on Sat/Sun if you have the facilities to do so.
Provide a "pay as you go" lunch...burgers/hot dogs etc.
Sat dinner is optional...pay if you want....don't if you don't. Seems more and more people might prefer not to "have to" pay for the "free" Sat dinner.
It would have to be somewhat of an experiment to see how well it would be received.
You're right. Wonder if anyone has the nerve to deviate from the "usual" program we've been seeing from place to place over the years?
Too many different ideas going at once here...
I'm not sure why you say this????? Of course you'd be welcome. I'm talking open to all classes with the "rough" percentages of the added money dispersed out to all the classes.
That was in reference to the BCDE shoot.
Why not? Charge the somewhat "standard" $50/100. Return the "usual" $10.00 to class along with the divided up "added money" to each class as well.
That was part of how I'd set up a BCDE shoot.
Provide a "pay as you go" breakfast on Sat/Sun if you have the facilities to do so.
Provide a "pay as you go" lunch...burgers/hot dogs etc.
Yup these are pretty standard and very nice to have for your shooters.
Sat dinner is optional...pay if you want....don't if you don't. Seems more and more people might prefer not to "have to" pay for the "free" Sat dinner.
This can turn into a nightmare really quick. You never know how many will end up attending. If you plan for 50 and get 30 or 60, then you've got a problem.
You're right. Wonder if anyone has the nerve to deviate from the "usual" program we've been seeing from place to place over the years?
If you look closely you will see a few Ontario shoots where people have done some different things over the last few years.
Brad.
I'm not sure why you say this????? Of course you'd be welcome. I'm talking open to all classes with the "rough" percentages of the added money dispersed out to all the classes.
That was in reference to the BCDE shoot.
Why not? Charge the somewhat "standard" $50/100. Return the "usual" $10.00 to class along with the divided up "added money" to each class as well.
That was part of how I'd set up a BCDE shoot.
Provide a "pay as you go" breakfast on Sat/Sun if you have the facilities to do so.
Provide a "pay as you go" lunch...burgers/hot dogs etc.
Yup these are pretty standard and very nice to have for your shooters.
Sat dinner is optional...pay if you want....don't if you don't. Seems more and more people might prefer not to "have to" pay for the "free" Sat dinner.
This can turn into a nightmare really quick. You never know how many will end up attending. If you plan for 50 and get 30 or 60, then you've got a problem.
You're right. Wonder if anyone has the nerve to deviate from the "usual" program we've been seeing from place to place over the years?
If you look closely you will see a few Ontario shoots where people have done some different things over the last few years.
Brad.
Neera, you seem to be concerned with not loosing shooters and/or keeping the numbers we have.
Pretty much....and increasing numbers if at all possible.
There was mention a bit back about the cost of gas and lead perhaps affecting attendance and participation to some degree.
No matter what class you are....we all pay basically the same for gas, motels, our lead, and our entry fees.
At almost every shoot around....the same select few make off with most of the cash and prizes weekend after weekend. I bet that makes absorbing all the escalating costs a little more palatable.
While the not so select many get little in return for their growing expenses and their efforts.
For those who say money is not an issue...great...I'm happy for them. I can assure you....for some money is an issue to some degree and if they have to keep incurring all the costs associated with playing...and continually get back little if anything....I fear that some will eventually reach a point where they might start thinking....pffffttt...it's just not worth it and they may fade away.
I reff'ed a squad 5 years ago at a shoot that shall remain nameless. During the break between rounds...and at the end of their 100....they were complaining about the cost of the shoot and stated they wouldn't be back. The entire squad has not been seen since. The money was obviously an issue for them.
What I'm interested in exploring...and hearing feedback on....is if there's something that can be done once in a while...for a change, for a little variety...that may help offset those costs for the lower class shooters and perhaps help hold their interest. I think for many....shooting 25 is more fun than shooting 23 or 24. And getting something back for their efforts is more fun than getting little or nothing back for their efforts.
I've seen more than one beginning lower class shooter fade off into the sunset over the years after deciding they can also have fun out in the middle of a lake catching bass...for alot less money.
Yes...we all want to go to a club and see the gang...have a good time...enjoy the shoot. I have absolutely nothing against anyone I've ever met at a shoot anywhere. I like 'em all and enjoy seeing them all the first shoot of the season. Do I like 'em all enough to want to keep spending $500 - $1000 every other weekend to see them all again and again? With little being returned. Ummmmm....let me get back to you on that one. LOL LOL JUST KIDDING.
Again....I'm not a C or D or E class shooter. But if we dont do something once in a while to hold the attention of the C & D & E class shooters....are they going to stay around long enough to become AA or A or B shooters.
Dunno. I'd just like to try to come up with something that may help hold their attention and keep them coming back for more rather than do nothing, maintain the status quo, and risk losing them.
If they remain content to keep coming, putting their money down...go home with their $12 cheque for their efforts and say they had a nice time...and come back next weekend for more of the same...then I guess there's nothing to worry about. Time will tell I guess.
I haven't done any math Brad. Let me review yours and see if we're on the same song page. And if I'm singing out of tune. LOL LOL Maybe my dividing up of the added money and percentages just isn't feasible. "shrug" Was just a thought.
Pretty much....and increasing numbers if at all possible.
There was mention a bit back about the cost of gas and lead perhaps affecting attendance and participation to some degree.
No matter what class you are....we all pay basically the same for gas, motels, our lead, and our entry fees.
At almost every shoot around....the same select few make off with most of the cash and prizes weekend after weekend. I bet that makes absorbing all the escalating costs a little more palatable.
While the not so select many get little in return for their growing expenses and their efforts.
For those who say money is not an issue...great...I'm happy for them. I can assure you....for some money is an issue to some degree and if they have to keep incurring all the costs associated with playing...and continually get back little if anything....I fear that some will eventually reach a point where they might start thinking....pffffttt...it's just not worth it and they may fade away.
I reff'ed a squad 5 years ago at a shoot that shall remain nameless. During the break between rounds...and at the end of their 100....they were complaining about the cost of the shoot and stated they wouldn't be back. The entire squad has not been seen since. The money was obviously an issue for them.
What I'm interested in exploring...and hearing feedback on....is if there's something that can be done once in a while...for a change, for a little variety...that may help offset those costs for the lower class shooters and perhaps help hold their interest. I think for many....shooting 25 is more fun than shooting 23 or 24. And getting something back for their efforts is more fun than getting little or nothing back for their efforts.
I've seen more than one beginning lower class shooter fade off into the sunset over the years after deciding they can also have fun out in the middle of a lake catching bass...for alot less money.
Yes...we all want to go to a club and see the gang...have a good time...enjoy the shoot. I have absolutely nothing against anyone I've ever met at a shoot anywhere. I like 'em all and enjoy seeing them all the first shoot of the season. Do I like 'em all enough to want to keep spending $500 - $1000 every other weekend to see them all again and again? With little being returned. Ummmmm....let me get back to you on that one. LOL LOL JUST KIDDING.
Again....I'm not a C or D or E class shooter. But if we dont do something once in a while to hold the attention of the C & D & E class shooters....are they going to stay around long enough to become AA or A or B shooters.
Dunno. I'd just like to try to come up with something that may help hold their attention and keep them coming back for more rather than do nothing, maintain the status quo, and risk losing them.
If they remain content to keep coming, putting their money down...go home with their $12 cheque for their efforts and say they had a nice time...and come back next weekend for more of the same...then I guess there's nothing to worry about. Time will tell I guess.
I haven't done any math Brad. Let me review yours and see if we're on the same song page. And if I'm singing out of tune. LOL LOL Maybe my dividing up of the added money and percentages just isn't feasible. "shrug" Was just a thought.
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Too many different ideas going at once here...
Sorry about that.
A few posts ago I said this:
But it does sound like if there's a desire to try to do something a little different for the lower classes ...where the majority of the shooters are...it would be preferred if it happens concurrently during a shoot open to all. I can live with that
So I dropped the top shooters being excluded idea. So you're invited and welcome too.
As for the math:
The money "returned to class" from the entry fee stays the same....say $10.00 returned to class. Fine.
Using your $1000 added money.....split up $200.00 per event....using my initial "rough" percentages then you get....for 20 - 28 - & 410:
AA/A @ 40% gets......$80.00 "added"
B @ 30% gets.........$60.00 "added"
C @ 20% gets..........$40.00 etc
D @ 10% gets..........$20.00 etc
For the 12 ga...use whatever percentages that would be appropriate.
In addition to the class "returned money"..dependent upon how many shooters in class there are.
Perhaps something along those lines.
From there for each event you'd have to divide $200 by the number of shooters and add that to the class return.
You threw another factor into the "added money" equation...the "divided by the number of shooters". Not sure why.
Sorry about that.
A few posts ago I said this:
But it does sound like if there's a desire to try to do something a little different for the lower classes ...where the majority of the shooters are...it would be preferred if it happens concurrently during a shoot open to all. I can live with that
So I dropped the top shooters being excluded idea. So you're invited and welcome too.
As for the math:
The money "returned to class" from the entry fee stays the same....say $10.00 returned to class. Fine.
Using your $1000 added money.....split up $200.00 per event....using my initial "rough" percentages then you get....for 20 - 28 - & 410:
AA/A @ 40% gets......$80.00 "added"
B @ 30% gets.........$60.00 "added"
C @ 20% gets..........$40.00 etc
D @ 10% gets..........$20.00 etc
For the 12 ga...use whatever percentages that would be appropriate.
In addition to the class "returned money"..dependent upon how many shooters in class there are.
Perhaps something along those lines.
From there for each event you'd have to divide $200 by the number of shooters and add that to the class return.
You threw another factor into the "added money" equation...the "divided by the number of shooters". Not sure why.
Skeet shooters may just have to face the fact that there are lot other clay sports that are more fun and they are loosing many participant to those sports.
Can't argue that Covey. Alberta sure is a good example of that.
Some years back Alta was second only to Ont in the number of registered skeet shooters...somewhere around 135 or so....back when the Canadian was held in Edmonton around 1981 I think.
Wasn't long afterwards SC hit the scene big time and now Alta has something around 10 or 12 registered skeet shooters. At least last time I looked at the numbers a couple years ago anyway. Maybe some forethought and effort to retain more skeet shooters may have helped save Skeet from a brutal death out there.
I don't have access to the numbers but I'd sure like to see how they've been holding up over the past 5-10 years or so here in Ont.
Can't argue that Covey. Alberta sure is a good example of that.
Some years back Alta was second only to Ont in the number of registered skeet shooters...somewhere around 135 or so....back when the Canadian was held in Edmonton around 1981 I think.
Wasn't long afterwards SC hit the scene big time and now Alta has something around 10 or 12 registered skeet shooters. At least last time I looked at the numbers a couple years ago anyway. Maybe some forethought and effort to retain more skeet shooters may have helped save Skeet from a brutal death out there.
I don't have access to the numbers but I'd sure like to see how they've been holding up over the past 5-10 years or so here in Ont.
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Honestly, I think you'd cause more grief with the lower class shooters this way. Assume that was a typical distribution of funds from a traditional shoot (with set prizes for CH/RU etc.). All shooters have an equal chance at that money regardless of class (perhaps not likely, but still a chance). The model above takes that chance away.
Also you could end up with the unfortunate situation where the top shooter (say from B class) doesn't get the top prize.
Furthermore, if you were to get an unbalanced distribution of classes (say 3 AA shooters and 25 C class shooters) the 3 would be shooting for a lot more money than the other 25.
My mistake, I thought you wanted to set up a distribution based upon numbers of shooters in each class.
Brad.
"So after a $500+ weekend they get back $12.00 or $20.00 or $30.00 and a participant pin for their C2 or D2."
I shot ALOT of registered skeet last year and went to ALOT of shoots and didn't have to pay nearly that much for a shoot. There are only 4 shoots in Ont. that I know of that cost that kind of money and are well known as big money shoots.
The two shoots that cost me the most were the Canadians and the Provicials, mostly my fault because I played all the games. To say that people are getting tired of spending about $500.00 or more every other weekend is a little bit of an exaggeration. I'm not factoring in travell and shells I am just talking about targets.
When I talk to other shooters I have never been told that the return for the cost is bulls**t. When I talk to other shooters the talk has never been about the money it has been how good the shoot is or how well run it is or isn't. The thing mentioned the most is "yea must be time to shoot the .410 the winds picking up."
I realize that your point is to try to get lower class shooters to attend some kind of shoot without feeling like they have to give up there first born, but there are lots of shoots in Ont. that can be attended and need supporting that you don't have to shell out a bucket of money to participate in. Granted there isn't alot in return except for fun and friendship but sometimes thats all you need for money well spent.
I shot ALOT of registered skeet last year and went to ALOT of shoots and didn't have to pay nearly that much for a shoot. There are only 4 shoots in Ont. that I know of that cost that kind of money and are well known as big money shoots.
The two shoots that cost me the most were the Canadians and the Provicials, mostly my fault because I played all the games. To say that people are getting tired of spending about $500.00 or more every other weekend is a little bit of an exaggeration. I'm not factoring in travell and shells I am just talking about targets.
When I talk to other shooters I have never been told that the return for the cost is bulls**t. When I talk to other shooters the talk has never been about the money it has been how good the shoot is or how well run it is or isn't. The thing mentioned the most is "yea must be time to shoot the .410 the winds picking up."
I realize that your point is to try to get lower class shooters to attend some kind of shoot without feeling like they have to give up there first born, but there are lots of shoots in Ont. that can be attended and need supporting that you don't have to shell out a bucket of money to participate in. Granted there isn't alot in return except for fun and friendship but sometimes thats all you need for money well spent.
OOOOOOH, I'll argue that. I can't speak as to what happened in Alberta. I don't know any of the details.
There is no doubt that Sporting Clays has gained significantly in popularity over the last 25 or so years. There are a lot more opportunities for shooters to participate. As far as I'm concerned, the more people shooting, regardless of the discipline, the better.
Participation in the different disciplines (say Trap/Skeet/Sporting) is somewhat cyclical. It used to flip/flop between skeet and trap quite regularly before sporting came along. I say that the trend will continue with the 3 now.
It takes a lot of work to keep people interested, and even more work to recruit new shooters. You can't just hope people will come to you anymore. Failure to address these issues will cause a rapid and perhaps fatal decline.
I'm sure my bias is pretty clear. You'll never convince me another game is more fun than skeet. I'll do my best to convince you skeet is more fun. I'll put on a shoot (or 5) and show you a good time.
Brad.
Brad, I would not even try to convince you otherwise. I know your love and dedication to the sport and if the sport survives, it will be because of people like you.
I gave skeet a really good try in the 70s and was quite good, but I could not get enough shooting in to feed my need or addiction. It just seemed so slow and repetative and there was so much time waiting to shoot and the fact that there was never enough skeet layouts did not help. With trap it was bang load and your ready to shoot again and 100 singles, 100 handicap and 50 pair of doubles was easily doable. When sporting came along it was slower like skeet, but I did not mind it so much because I never had to shoot the same presentations over and over and over again. I still like to shoot skeet, but i prefer it with a small squad of three or it gets to slow for me to enjoy.
