A canoe/survival gun project

GrahamSavage99

GrahamSavage99

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Looking for opinions and ideas on a question/idea.

Once in a while I go on a canoe trip (in Saskatchewan). Usually remote or semi-remote location for a few days, sometimes solo, sometimes small groups. Often it would be nice to have a gun for a grumpy or habituated bear that may show up at night. Haven’t taken a gun yet, only bangers, spray, bells etc. Less an issue in groups, but when I’m solo, not as much intimidation factor as a group and would be nice to have a moderately powerful gun for the job.

I’m trying to find or create the most compact, durable carry method for a gun. This is a gun/container combination that results in the lowest weight and bulk. Handgun would be a great option, but illegal or tough to get carry permit for my scenario.

Currently I have a Savage 99 in 303 Savage which is a takedown model. Shortest length here would be 22” and about 4.5” deep, 2” wide. My idea is to build/replace the butt stock with a new one slightly modified. If I knock about 1/2” off the toe of the stock, I can slip it into a 4” ABS pipe 22” long and 4” inside diameter, with cap and clean-out plug. Waterproof, durable, floats and reasonably compact.

Can anyone think of a smaller better idea?

I consider honest bear rifles to start at .357magnum on up from there. The 9mm carbines would be OK(Like Ruger PC carbine), but a little underpowered and I currently don’t have one.

I have a Marlin guide gun in 45-70, and a Ruger scout in 308 that are fine for the application, but if I put them in a case or container, they get bulky in a hurry. Canoe trip can be rough on equipment and don’t want them loose banging around a canoe.

If you don’t canoe, but perhaps spend time on a ATV, motocycle, snow mobile or otherwise and need a gun what do you do where size and weight considerations are paramount and environmental conditions could be tough on an exposed gun?

Other ideas I’ve considered are 12 guage Rem 870 with short barrel, pistol grip or folding stock. Maybe a Chiappa Alaskan? Browning’s BLR has a takedown version in suitable calibers?Both of these are much more expensive options that a new buttstock for my Savage 99. Bit could be an excuse for a new gun.

This is not a hunting scenario, and I understand some places may not allow a rifle at all time of year. For this question consider only federal gun law as current, not local game regulations and such.
 
I do all my hunting by canoes in bear country both black and grizzly, and I do lots of canoeing off hunting season, I usually only carry a rifle during hunting season. The rifle lives in a soft waterproof case until I need it! I sometimes carry 2 firearms, a regular rifle, bolt action and a combo gun 7x57r over 2 3/4 12 gauge!
Anyway what I want to say is your 99 in 303 sounds perfect to me, just get a waterproof case made for it and you will be golden! I don’t think plastic pipe, caps and plugs is the way to go! But that is just me!!
 
i used when i guided on boat canoe and river a take down savage in 300 savage, i used a nomar gun case and i added on it a dog pfd.

the combi will the best of the 2 world.

still use the nomar gun case for our hunts will it be for shotgun or rifle.
 
My Rossi Ranch hand in .44 mag is my canoe/blanket gun, just so light and handy it goes with me almost everywhere.

I have a Savage 99 takedown in 30-30, a BLR takedown in .308 and a Brno combo 308/12ga that could all fill the role but the little Rossi works best for me
 
Henry Mare's Leg .357 Mag with a Big Boy stock on it.

ZPZo02J.jpg
 
Sulun SS-211 o/u with 9.8" barrels & 3" chamber would be about 4.5lbs and the most compact NR that I can think of... Super short LOP, lots of muzzle blast, not practical for hunting per say, but would check the box for a SHTF scenario & be easy to pack/carry. NEED someone to figure out how to mount the same light I have on my Takedown, onto the Sulun...

IMG_7403.jpg

I set up my Taylors & Co Chiappa Alaskan takedown in 44Mag with a 16.5" barrel as a 'camp gun' with a red dot & 3100 lumen flashlight on it BUT it's not light or as compact as the 12ga. I've added a Wild Wild Dill leather buttstock shell holder since taking this pic, but you get the idea...

Taylors&CoTakedown1982in44Mag.jpg

You didn't say you were hunting on these canoe trips, so if weight & compact were the main issues, I'd carry the Sulun.
 

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I’d prefer to have quick access with no reassembly required.

Short barreled shotguns with pistol grip would be solid for protection. I wouldn’t go much shorter than 14”. Easy to mount a light, lots of accessories available and won’t break the bank. The over under posted above would be slick too.

Mares leg in .357 or .44mag, you could make a stock extension yourself to save some coin. Some creative CGNr’s have done it and shared their designs.
 
I settled on a Remington 870 Marine Magnum for the same purpose, meaning problem bears. They will by definition be up close, quite likely in the dark and hard to see. A 12G offers a good combination of slug and 00 Buck ammunition and at least in theory could be shot effectively by anyone in a party. Load the tube and leave the safety off with the chamber empty, the safety is jacking a shell into the chamber, no fussing with buttons. The marine finish removes most of the concern about getting the gun wet, although I did fret about the shells getting soaked in a sea kayak.

wm_7883886.jpg
 
GrahamSavage99 said:
Looking for opinions and ideas on a question/idea.

Once in a while I go on a canoe trip (in Saskatchewan). Usually remote or semi-remote location for a few days, sometimes solo, sometimes small groups. Often it would be nice to have a gun for a grumpy or habituated bear that may show up at night. Haven’t taken a gun yet, only bangers, spray, bells etc. Less an issue in groups, but when I’m solo, not as much intimidation factor as a group and would be nice to have a moderately powerful gun for the job.

I’m trying to find or create the most compact, durable carry method for a gun. This is a gun/container combination that results in the lowest weight and bulk. Handgun would be a great option, but illegal or tough to get carry permit for my scenario.

Currently I have a Savage 99 in 303 Savage which is a takedown model. Shortest length here would be 22” and about 4.5” deep, 2” wide. My idea is to build/replace the butt stock with a new one slightly modified. If I knock about 1/2” off the toe of the stock, I can slip it into a 4” ABS pipe 22” long and 4” inside diameter, with cap and clean-out plug. Waterproof, durable, floats and reasonably compact.

Can anyone think of a smaller better idea?

I consider honest bear rifles to start at .357magnum on up from there. The 9mm carbines would be OK(Like Ruger PC carbine), but a little underpowered and I currently don’t have one.

I have a Marlin guide gun in 45-70, and a Ruger scout in 308 that are fine for the application, but if I put them in a case or container, they get bulky in a hurry. Canoe trip can be rough on equipment and don’t want them loose banging around a canoe.

If you don’t canoe, but perhaps spend time on a ATV, motocycle, snow mobile or otherwise and need a gun what do you do where size and weight considerations are paramount and environmental conditions could be tough on an exposed gun?

Other ideas I’ve considered are 12 guage Rem 870 with short barrel, pistol grip or folding stock. Maybe a Chiappa Alaskan? Browning’s BLR has a takedown version in suitable calibers?Both of these are much more expensive options that a new buttstock for my Savage 99. Bit could be an excuse for a new gun.

This is not a hunting scenario, and I understand some places may not allow a rifle at all time of year. For this question consider only federal gun law as current, not local game regulations and such.
Click to expand...


Look if you buy something expensive and tip over the canoe your going to be pissed . I would just take either an old 870 Remington or an Old Mossberg 500 or a single shot 12 gauge with the barrel shortened to 18.5 inches . make a tube out of abs to store it in or find a gun case that will float. ammo in a sealed water tight container . Mossberg 500 would be my choice. no folding stock or that matter . full butt stock so it's comfortable to shoot . slugs and bird shot . good stuff too . you can feed yourself or defend yourself against any critter . test the firearm out lots before your outing . KISS scenario . keep it simple . some people like the Maverick 88 shotgun . there is a pin on the receiver that backs out on those shotguns so I have heard . good luck.
 
Whatever you choose has to be adrenalin proof! Therefore, safeties, bolt locks, slide releases, quirky reloading sequences all have to be dog-s#it simple.

I can think of three recent bear attack stories (one polar and two griz') where there was a personal protection firearm that failed and the human lost the argument.

A group of tourists or scientists North of Norway were stalked by a polar bear. There were "trained" bear guards, but the rifle they had had a safety that blocked the firing pin but didn't disable the bolt. IA and Stoppage Drills as taught when the gun goes click not bang were to cycle the bolt. The guard functioned the bolt and emptied the magazine without firing a shot.

Just recently a guide was dreadfully mauled in the US when his self-defence revolver failed. Don't know why, but they typically are more foregiving than a semi.

A few years ago, a guide on the coast in Alaska was killed when his clients were charged by a bear. The semi-auto handgun was tossed in the middle the attack to a bystander, expecting them to have a better shot. The newbie had no clue. Likely didn't function the grip safety, the thumb safety or a trigger blade safety.

What works? I know a fellow who got a Chief of the Defence Staff Commendation for shooting a polar bear that was chasing a bear guard. One shot with a .303BR survival rifle for ranging, and another to hit the vitals. Rifles in camp always had live ammunition and were afforded every safe ATTITUDES but not reliance on mechanisms.
 
Interesting thread.
Just one comment - the tube in the pic looks an awful lot like the blueprint tubes that carpenters here use out on the bay. When you're taking a big roll of plans back and forth from the build site in a boat, you can't have them getting wet, so building supply stores sell these ready made tubes. Screw caps, carrying straps, all set to go. If you want to buy something premade, a building supply store might have one of them that would work for you.
 
40ish years ago I made a soft case out of canvas for my 30-30 when canoeing a river north of PG. The open end foldes over 3 times then 3 snaps to secure it closed. Soaked it in Thompsons water seal a couple of times tested it out by filling it full of water no leaks, I'd probably use silicone treatment now. Never flip my canoe with it but has been in some heavy rain. I have my DIY custom 8x57 in it the last 8 years.
 
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A 9.3x74r Tikka 512, looked like it had a mid rib not sure if that was aftermarket

The best way to eliminate temptation on something you really shouldn't buy is to post it on cgn
 
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