I've always wondered what benefit do the high power air rifles have, i'm talking the ones over 1200fps that require a PAL have over a 22? I have often been tempted to buy one but the price point is around a rimfire. My main use of my 22 is plinking and grouse hunting and sounds like a high power air rifle could be a good addition for grouse.
high power air vs 22
- Thread starter renton83
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No real benefit, unless you count air as free propellant.
A decent quality air rifle is going to be generally heavier, and a LOT more expensive than a .22 suitable for grouse.
And, for reference sake, most of the PAL rated airguns you see at C-Tire and the like, are pretty low end, in the scheme of things. You have to have shot some decently built air guns to really 'get' that.
Take the advertised velocities of the hardware store guns with a huge dose of salt, too, sorta like Shop Vac Horsepower. You can pretty much count on that they got those velocities shooting the lightest, loosest fitting pellet they could get across the chrony, with no regard for how accurately it shot.
A decent quality air rifle is going to be generally heavier, and a LOT more expensive than a .22 suitable for grouse.
And, for reference sake, most of the PAL rated airguns you see at C-Tire and the like, are pretty low end, in the scheme of things. You have to have shot some decently built air guns to really 'get' that.
Take the advertised velocities of the hardware store guns with a huge dose of salt, too, sorta like Shop Vac Horsepower. You can pretty much count on that they got those velocities shooting the lightest, loosest fitting pellet they could get across the chrony, with no regard for how accurately it shot.
Another factor is the 'spring or nitro piston'. You'll get vibrations and 'double-recoils' that affect accuracy with the 'higher power' air rifles. The accurate airguns are the PCPs, which can be regulated for various uses. But then you need a pump or scba tank or such, and end up with the price of a high-end 22lr. And a $300 22lr rifle will stop most grouse as well as a $1-2k PCP.
A .22 pcp will generally be capable of 25 to 50 ft-lb energy depending on the tune and the pellet used. A typical .22LR is capable of about 120 fpe. The .22 LR will shoot flatter and further. Both can be used for hunting, you just have to shoot accordingly. .22 air rifles can have quite a bark to them as well. While this varies with each rifle you aren't likely to get a whisper quiet report legally here in Canada.
For me the cost isn't worth whatever (if any) advantages an air gun is going to provide. A cheap bolt action 22 is hard to beat with the variety of ammo available (cci quiet, standard velocity, mini mags, and velocitors for example from just one manufacturer, plus rat shot), so it's hard for me to believe an air gun is going to do anything my Savage or Marlin can't.
jlovie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm looking at getting a pcp rifle mainly for squirrel hunting. I've never been a fan of shooting a 22 above the horizon line, mainly because I am not accurate enough and a clean miss, not hitting any branches or anything, who knows where it will end up.
The biggest advantage a quality PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) air rifle may have over a .22LR is the cost of the ammo itself. But that's excluding the cost of the high pressure air.
Of course a good quality spring piston air rifle is much less expensive than a good quality PCP and doesn't require anything but some muscle power to break the barrel or #### the lever. But even these are often more expensive than many .22LR rifles.
Of course a good quality spring piston air rifle is much less expensive than a good quality PCP and doesn't require anything but some muscle power to break the barrel or #### the lever. But even these are often more expensive than many .22LR rifles.
As mentioned:
1) pellet range significantly shorter than .22lr. Not sure you could even get a pellet 300 yards, but lots of videos of people hitting things that far with a .22lr
2) 500 match pellets for approx $20 vs a box of 50 .22lr...
3) Generally much quieter than a rimfire- unless using "quiet ammo". No ear protection required and neighbors aren't going to be bothered too much.
Disadvantages:
1) quite a bit lower energy. Springers are 12-20 ish FPE, PCP can get up to 50, but still a lot less than .22lr
2) rifle weight is much heavier- it has to have the power plant attached.
3) a higher end air rifle is generally equally or more expensive than a powder burner- again, has to come with the power plant.
Don't believe the "1200 fps" bunk- you want to keep a pellet well below the speed of sound so typically the 1200 is achieved with very lightweight pellets while normal pellets should be in the 800-900 range for best performance. Typically the weight of the pellet is used to tune the velocity to the "sweet spot" for the rig- heavier pellets for higher energy rifles. For hunting the .22 or even .25 cal rifles are generally better, but for targets the .177 is the standard. For pest control a .22 cal rifle would be my choice.
Personally I really enjoy my air rifles. The springers require very good technique to shoot well and are very intolerant of poor form. It makes me a better shooter because I can get a lot of trigger pulls for pretty minimal cost (after the rifle is purchased) and without bothering the neighbors. My Hw77 with a 12FPE spring kit is perhaps my favorite rifle.
1) pellet range significantly shorter than .22lr. Not sure you could even get a pellet 300 yards, but lots of videos of people hitting things that far with a .22lr
2) 500 match pellets for approx $20 vs a box of 50 .22lr...
3) Generally much quieter than a rimfire- unless using "quiet ammo". No ear protection required and neighbors aren't going to be bothered too much.
Disadvantages:
1) quite a bit lower energy. Springers are 12-20 ish FPE, PCP can get up to 50, but still a lot less than .22lr
2) rifle weight is much heavier- it has to have the power plant attached.
3) a higher end air rifle is generally equally or more expensive than a powder burner- again, has to come with the power plant.
Don't believe the "1200 fps" bunk- you want to keep a pellet well below the speed of sound so typically the 1200 is achieved with very lightweight pellets while normal pellets should be in the 800-900 range for best performance. Typically the weight of the pellet is used to tune the velocity to the "sweet spot" for the rig- heavier pellets for higher energy rifles. For hunting the .22 or even .25 cal rifles are generally better, but for targets the .177 is the standard. For pest control a .22 cal rifle would be my choice.
Personally I really enjoy my air rifles. The springers require very good technique to shoot well and are very intolerant of poor form. It makes me a better shooter because I can get a lot of trigger pulls for pretty minimal cost (after the rifle is purchased) and without bothering the neighbors. My Hw77 with a 12FPE spring kit is perhaps my favorite rifle.
Does it get tiring to #### the air rifle pretty quickly? It sounds like the high power ones take quite a bit of effort.
No. Perhaps gas ram (nitro piston) air rifles require more effort than a spring piston, but it's possible to shoot a hundred or more rounds in a session with a good springer without tiring.
I don't hunt, but the PCP rifle is a very capable machine, feel free to compare to 22 LR. I know some people in USA competing with airguns in a 22LR tournaments and winning !!!
I have two PCP air rifles, both setups for target shooting, and I am a large volume shooter, roughly averaging 8-9 K shots per year. I was training hard for competition but recent years were just messy for long travels so ended up just having my own fun game.
The FX Impact MK2 in .25 with several 700 mm barrel liners, each have different twist rate, let say 1:32 or 1:27 or 1:24 or 1:18 or 1:15.5 (one twist : over those length in inches). Each liner is a different personality - for different projectiles. This my airgun is tuned currently for 100 meter rings, and it is capable of MOA precision with pellets, I can change the power tune right on the gun and shall be able to shoot slugs to 200 and 300 meter rings. This airgun base price starts about $3300 and very quickly can double the cost if you not careful with your wallet.
The Edgun Leshiy2 is a .22 semi auto, I have same several different barrels (different lengths and twist rates) and also I made an adapter that will fit the FX liners as well. I tuned this gun for speed siluettes up to 100 meters, and I was shooting it in my gunclub at the 22LR range. I have friends in US who shoot this same airgun up to 200 meters but I have not tried it yet. The US folks using it mostly in hunting scenarios. This airgun base price starts about $3500 and the sky is a limit.
Also, I have a compressor that can reach 300 bars, and four scba (firefighters breathable air) tanks, with my style of shooting I need to refill at least ones a month. Each tank can give me roughly about 700 shots, but actually I never count/document it just guessing.
And then comes the optics, me personally like high power glass to zoom in a 100 or 200 meters target I like to watch how my projectiles chewing the paper edge.
So, pretty much the PCP airgunning is like an iceberg, you see the rifle or handgun, but the total cost is ... a rabbit hole is piece of cake to compare.
If you need to take care of your wallet but want to save on primer you can still get brake barrels high quality starting from $700 ish. If you targeting sub $500 better stay with 22 rimfire.
I have two PCP air rifles, both setups for target shooting, and I am a large volume shooter, roughly averaging 8-9 K shots per year. I was training hard for competition but recent years were just messy for long travels so ended up just having my own fun game.
The FX Impact MK2 in .25 with several 700 mm barrel liners, each have different twist rate, let say 1:32 or 1:27 or 1:24 or 1:18 or 1:15.5 (one twist : over those length in inches). Each liner is a different personality - for different projectiles. This my airgun is tuned currently for 100 meter rings, and it is capable of MOA precision with pellets, I can change the power tune right on the gun and shall be able to shoot slugs to 200 and 300 meter rings. This airgun base price starts about $3300 and very quickly can double the cost if you not careful with your wallet.
The Edgun Leshiy2 is a .22 semi auto, I have same several different barrels (different lengths and twist rates) and also I made an adapter that will fit the FX liners as well. I tuned this gun for speed siluettes up to 100 meters, and I was shooting it in my gunclub at the 22LR range. I have friends in US who shoot this same airgun up to 200 meters but I have not tried it yet. The US folks using it mostly in hunting scenarios. This airgun base price starts about $3500 and the sky is a limit.
Also, I have a compressor that can reach 300 bars, and four scba (firefighters breathable air) tanks, with my style of shooting I need to refill at least ones a month. Each tank can give me roughly about 700 shots, but actually I never count/document it just guessing.
And then comes the optics, me personally like high power glass to zoom in a 100 or 200 meters target I like to watch how my projectiles chewing the paper edge.
So, pretty much the PCP airgunning is like an iceberg, you see the rifle or handgun, but the total cost is ... a rabbit hole is piece of cake to compare.
If you need to take care of your wallet but want to save on primer you can still get brake barrels high quality starting from $700 ish. If you targeting sub $500 better stay with 22 rimfire.
I remember hearing someone say; "a canoe and a motor boat can both get you across the lake, sort of depends what kind of experience you're after"
As an adult, I've never loved airguns enough to spend money on a good one but I've shot a few of the better magnum/springers. More power than I was expecting honestly, but physically bigger/heavier than anything I'd want to tote around in the woods. I also think a string of cheap, problematic CO2 guns in my life hasn't made the idea of HPA appealing either. They go off with quite a crack too.
Airguns have their place, I've used them effectively against barn pigeons where punching a hole through a tin roof wouldn't make you overly popular. I'm "between airguns" right now, but looking for a particular model that once served that purpose well for me.
Airgun/22 in the woods? I'd pick a .22 myself and spare all the variables airguns bring to the table.
As an adult, I've never loved airguns enough to spend money on a good one but I've shot a few of the better magnum/springers. More power than I was expecting honestly, but physically bigger/heavier than anything I'd want to tote around in the woods. I also think a string of cheap, problematic CO2 guns in my life hasn't made the idea of HPA appealing either. They go off with quite a crack too.
Airguns have their place, I've used them effectively against barn pigeons where punching a hole through a tin roof wouldn't make you overly popular. I'm "between airguns" right now, but looking for a particular model that once served that purpose well for me.
Airgun/22 in the woods? I'd pick a .22 myself and spare all the variables airguns bring to the table.
Yes, but keep in mind that how the Temp or Humidity changes ... the tune must change/follow as well if you want to keep the POA to POI relation.
In the woods you have barely 50 meters clear view, hard to locate 100 for hunting.
In my view below $500 CAD you cannot get an accurate or precise, some of them may have options to do DIY "upgrades" to put the shooting in a perspective and that again adds to the expense, so ...
But again, for occasional use the .22 rimfire is a least cost effective option.
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Some of you may have seen the EBR and RMAC competition videos, this one is just a short recap from RMAC 2023 but way more vids available with more crowds and events details @ YT.
The US organizer folks do these the best, this what I have learned almost two decades of competing in archery and now with airguns as well. No money shots I have seen in Canada as the US does.
The preparation is eye opening, the actual shooting starts about 12 minutes.
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/the-rocky-mountain-airgun-challenge-rmac-2023.1286066
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCM8eO5XAo
If you watch these videos you will realize the real difference you may never see shooting powderburners...
The US organizer folks do these the best, this what I have learned almost two decades of competing in archery and now with airguns as well. No money shots I have seen in Canada as the US does.
The preparation is eye opening, the actual shooting starts about 12 minutes.
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/the-rocky-mountain-airgun-challenge-rmac-2023.1286066
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCM8eO5XAo
If you watch these videos you will realize the real difference you may never see shooting powderburners...
I used a theoben rapid seven with cross man domed pellets
Rifle produced 32ft/lbs with 14.3 grain .22 pellet
Which is 1003ft/sec
I was head shooting foxes at 50 yds
Rabbits at 80yds
Rifle ran with compressed air and sound modded
Totally recoilless and pretty damn quiet
Rifle produced 32ft/lbs with 14.3 grain .22 pellet
Which is 1003ft/sec
I was head shooting foxes at 50 yds
Rabbits at 80yds
Rifle ran with compressed air and sound modded
Totally recoilless and pretty damn quiet
I only have an old Slavia 620 that was my Dad's . it has killed many things years ago but is retired to a closet. can't go stomping the bush across the street anymore. someone will call the cops. anyways I always found the killing power wanting as in not enough. I know someone who has a 22 caliber pellet rifle made in Spain . Gamo ? he said he shot a racoon with it and it was dead the next day . but his son has one in 177 cal and it's louder than the 22 . more velocity . I'd take the 22 pellet over the 177 . anyways for in your back yard the pellet gun would be fine . but if your in the woods shooting Grouse etc and say some coyotes get a sniff of blood and come looking as in real hungry I would prefer to have even a single shoot Cooey 22 than a 22 pellet rifle . heck if your worried about noise get some of those lower velocity 22 shells . I like pellet rifles but have to budget myself . I can't see spending $600 plus on a pellet rifle .
The .25 is a best all-in-one calibre, paired with a PCP can do wonder.
Now why a PCP? An average mid prices PCP you get a luxury of changing power levels on the go. And that is a main contrast to a firearm where if you want to change the parameters (meaning tunes) that are locked to a charge in pre-defined off the shelf amo.
Back to projectiles.
The .25 have both the knocking power and precision. The .22 is more just a precision oriented but you can still have knocking power as well if you go heavier projectiles, but that requires more powerful PCP.
So for every money there is something to get.
A .22 pellet or slug can do wonders in both precision and kinetic energy, but be ready to spend $1.5 K if you targeting a raccoon size game, and I feel there is a borderline. But the .22 PCP can be a basic around a house tool with a low speed tune.
Now why a PCP? An average mid prices PCP you get a luxury of changing power levels on the go. And that is a main contrast to a firearm where if you want to change the parameters (meaning tunes) that are locked to a charge in pre-defined off the shelf amo.
Back to projectiles.
The .25 have both the knocking power and precision. The .22 is more just a precision oriented but you can still have knocking power as well if you go heavier projectiles, but that requires more powerful PCP.
So for every money there is something to get.
A .22 pellet or slug can do wonders in both precision and kinetic energy, but be ready to spend $1.5 K if you targeting a raccoon size game, and I feel there is a borderline. But the .22 PCP can be a basic around a house tool with a low speed tune.
renton - I've had a .177 and .22 in 'high-power' and you do get tired after 20-50 shots - or less if you're skinny and over 70 like me. 
They're gone now! You should consider a low-priced 22 like a Sav MKII or B22 and use 'quiet' ammo when you 'need to'. Both of those are excellent target rifles as well. The 'low-cost' pellet guns are not very accurate, esp compared to a .22.
I did keep a 'low-power' .177 to scare away pigeons and accidentally killed one at 25yds - not very accurate, I wasn't aiming for the bird. And the 'Classic 1322' pump-up pistol can get up around 500fps for the 'close shots'. I put a curved piece of conduit on the cocking-lever to get more 'lever-age' - still monotonous to pump 10+ times.
They're gone now! You should consider a low-priced 22 like a Sav MKII or B22 and use 'quiet' ammo when you 'need to'. Both of those are excellent target rifles as well. The 'low-cost' pellet guns are not very accurate, esp compared to a .22.I did keep a 'low-power' .177 to scare away pigeons and accidentally killed one at 25yds - not very accurate, I wasn't aiming for the bird. And the 'Classic 1322' pump-up pistol can get up around 500fps for the 'close shots'. I put a curved piece of conduit on the cocking-lever to get more 'lever-age' - still monotonous to pump 10+ times.
