45-70 reload hangfire

Paul_1982

Paul_1982

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
139   0   1
Location
Orangeville
I’m not new to reloading, but I am new to reloading for lever action rifles, and the 45-70.

I have a Marlin 1895 that can take full power rounds, so I referred to my Lee reloading book and Hodgdon’s reloading data, and made up some 350 grain bullet over 54 up to 57 grains of H335. I used CCI Large Rifle primers and added a crimp.

I hit the range today, and three of thw rounds had a noticeable split second delay between click and fire. The Chronograph measured them at 1772fps for 54 grains up to 1847 fps at 57 grains- which seemed a bit slow.

Could it be that I need a magnum primer, despite the data not calling for it? Or could it be I crimped too much/too little?

Thoughts?
 
how much air space is in the case with that powder? The powder in along the bottom( when in its side ) of the casing, horizontal. the powder is not against the primer. You may need to add filler to keep the powder on the primer so it will ignite quicker.
 
redbirddog said:
how much air space is in the case with that powder? The powder in along the bottom( when in its side ) of the casing, horizontal. the powder is not against the primer. You may need to add filler to keep the powder on the primer so it will ignite quicker.
Click to expand...

You know, come to think of it, you’re probably right. As I loaded them I did recall thinking there was some room in there.

So, to test the theory, what is used as “filler”? Or would I be better of choosing a different powder? I chose H335 as I had a couple pounds on hand and the data was in my book.
 
If you go to the far end of the Orangeville Mall, there's a store called Michael's.
Get a pack of Loops & Threads brand Classic Low Loft Batting, and you'll have a lifetime supply of filler.
Also, get a 7/16" craft hole punch to make separator disks out of light card stock like cigarette packs or such.
They help to minimize migration of the powder into the batting, especially if you'll be humping with the ammo a lot.
 
More crimp, lightly increased powder charge, magnum primer, different (faster) powder, or an appropriate filler such as dracon batting are all appropriate solutions.
 
A quick look on GRT* shows:
-H335 from 54 to 57gr is approx. 88.4% to 93.4% case fill.
-estimated velocities are approx 1885fps to 1970fps.
-estimated breech pressures are approx 32000psi to 38000psi.
-estimated energy is approx 2750ft-lb to 3050ft-lbs.
Hodgdon On-Line, For "Lever Actions" H335 - 54 to 60grains, "Modern Rifles" 57 to 63grains

Was this 'new' or once fired & cleaned brass.
-If new I'd be looking at the primer flash hole consistency.
-If used & cleaned, how was it cleaned? A small chunk of cleaning media, corn or walnut stuck in there would give inconsistent ignition and velocities.

Crimp issues.
Best way to check 'if' you have to little crimp is to measure and record COL of 6 rounds(marked on brass). Fill tube, cycle a round from tube and shoot 1 round. Empty rifle and check each round's COL.
If the bullet 'jumps' the crimp, COL is no longer consistent, that will cause velocity differences.
To much crimp usually shows up with poor accuracy and/or bullets coming apart in flight.

In my 444, running real close to the rifles Max COL, with near Max compressed loads and the bullet jumps the crimp, I've end up with a major pain in the ass jam ups requiring disassembly of the rifle.



*GRT - Gordon's Reloading Tool is a free CIP/European based reloading tool.
 
It would probably be worth trying a different primer, just to see if that cures the hangfires. Surely you can swap or buy 1 pack somewhere... Winchester primers are one of the hotter ones but you should not need mag primers for a 45-70.
I've never used H335, my go to powders for 45-70 are RL7, IMR4198, & Unique.
 
CCI are great primers, but they're harder than most. I don't think it's the air space in the round. I shoot 45/70 cast 405s with only 14gr of trail boss and CCI primers and they go bang every time.

If you're not getting reliable ignition, but some of your rounds from the same powder batch are igniting fine, the primer is the likely culprit (either defective primers or a primer seating issue).

Try magnum primers and see if it helps. Generally speaking, 60gr of powder is the threshold for magnum primers, but you're pretty close to that.

More than the primer type though, I suspect your process might be the cause. Are you absolutely certain that your primers are seated properly? They have to be fully bottomed out on the brass for the anvil to work properly - not seating them all the way will definitely cause the issue you're having.

Any signs of light strikes on the rounds you had an issue with?

Good luck
 
Canuck65 said:
CCI are great primers, but they're harder than most. I don't think it's the air space in the round. I shoot 45/70 cast 405s with only 14gr of trail boss and CCI primers and they go bang every time.

If you're not getting reliable ignition, but some of your rounds from the same powder batch are igniting fine, the primer is the likely culprit (either defective primers or a primer seating issue).

Try magnum primers and see if it helps. Generally speaking, 60gr of powder is the threshold for magnum primers, but you're pretty close to that.

More than the primer type though, I suspect your process might be the cause. Are you absolutely certain that your primers are seated properly? They have to be fully bottomed out on the brass for the anvil to work properly - not seating them all the way will definitely cause the issue you're having.

Any signs of light strikes on the rounds you had an issue with?

Good luck
Click to expand...

I actually had an issue regarding primer seating depth and I was not doing anything different than I usually did. I seat all my primers with a handheld RCBS tool. When loading 375 Ruger for the first time I only had a Lee(I think) shellholder... no big deal. The primers would not even seat flush, let alone slightly below flush... I put project on hold and ordered a RCBS shellholder online and ran all the brass through the seating tool again with the new shellholder. Perfectly seated primers. That is the only time I have ever had an issue mismatching tools.
 
.45-70 Marlin data in Speer Reloading Manual #14 specifies CCI 250 for H335 & 400gr so I might try magnum primers for 350gr as well if I were ever to try H335 but might get worse hangfires with the lighter weight bullet. Hornady don't list H335 & 350gr maybe for that reason. I don't think I would ever try it anyway I like Re7 results.
 
Last edited:
Years ago I had a problem with my 45-70. Two squib loads with pretty good charges of H-4198 in cold weather. I backed the load off a bit and switched from CCI std. to Federal magnum primers and have never had a problem since.

Chris.
 
Most manuals list magnum primers with ball powders because ball powder is harder to ignite.

The problem is exacerbated in large bore rifles, because the volume increases dramatically as the bullet starts to move. Increased volume is decreased pressure - and it takes pressure to get ignition.

I have had the click-bang feeling a number of times with ball powder.

Two things you can do:

Use a magnum primer or a stnd Wincheter primer. This will speed up ignition.

Use a firmer crimp. This will increase ignition pressure.

There is a difference in primers. (Second primer is a Winchester.)
sjlhiqu.jpg


TxkeVjK.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ganderite,………are the CCI 200’s harder to ignite than Federal primers?? Some lever guns do have weaker firing pin springs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom