Polish MSBS Grot review in Ukraine

greentips said:
C21 only prohibits any semi designed before the date of the law IIRC. So Grot is fine but it is probably more of an issue of actually getting any. The semi version has been for sale in Poland and the EU awhile ago.

Someone tried some years ago but nothing heard.
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No, it's actually for all NEW designs:
"One amendment would criminalize any PAL holder who buys, sells, or owns any rifle or shotgun that is:

centre-fire
semi-automatic,
originally designed for a detachable ammo mag that can hold six or more cartridges, and
designed and made after Bill C-21 becomes law.

“This technical definition would cover firearms designed and manufactured after Bill C-21 comes into force; it would not affect the classification of existing firearms in the Canadian market,” the government said in a technical presentation today."

C21 is not the law, right, but RCMP has the right to define their own laws or bend existing, so I would not be surprised.

As for Grot, looks like old record, no? FRN is lower than Bren, are those FRNs sequential?

 
I saw this on Armalytics too. Why would the semi version be prohib? There's no mention of it being a 'converted automatic' and I see no justification in the notes (typical with prohibitions, see FRT for SCAR16S for example).

Horilka said:
No, it's actually for all NEW designs:
"One amendment would criminalize any PAL holder who buys, sells, or owns any rifle or shotgun that is:

centre-fire
semi-automatic,
originally designed for a detachable ammo mag that can hold six or more cartridges, and
designed and made after Bill C-21 becomes law.

“This technical definition would cover firearms designed and manufactured after Bill C-21 comes into force; it would not affect the classification of existing firearms in the Canadian market,” the government said in a technical presentation today."

C21 is not the law, right, but RCMP has the right to define their own laws or bend existing, so I would not be surprised.

As for Grot, looks like old record, no? FRN is lower than Bren, are those FRNs sequential?

Click to expand...
 
Speaking of the GROT, I buddy I used to work with told me that the GROT at the range we worked at just crapped out. Looks like the bolt might have shattered. The rifle for sure was less than 1 year old, and likely wasn't used that much, as people had to request it specifically.
 
The issue with carriers self-destruction is mentioned in this 1yo vid. Also issue with extractor pin - two major issues with Grots. Also there's a bayonet demonstration (bayo is cool, but has weird mounting system). Video is in Ukrainian so use autotranslation.

 
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Follow up video, very critical. "It's hard to name a part that did not break based on feedback from many operators from many units"
- sensitivity to dirt, even small amount of sand can make BCG stuck in the middle, preventing both further feeding and disassembly
- to many small parts can be lost during field strip
- poor treatment of extractor pin either prevent bolt fully closing (after deformation) or causing double feed
- poor quality of carrier causes cracks and destruction of this part
- metal parts are prone to corrosion
- plastic parts prone to cracking under usual temperatures and extremely fragile during winter time
- firing pins break
- gas regulators break
- muzzle breaks crack
- trigger units break
- recoil buffers break
- some reports of magazine well deformation causing mag drops
- last gen magpul mags don't always work (there are some controversy on this subject, some operators report no issues with magpul mags )

Stats from one assault unit:
- 851 Grots in use
- 2 broken buttstocks
- 7 broken firing pins
- 3 broken gas regulators
- 2 cracked muzzle brakes
- 3 broken trigger units
- almost all had recoil buffer destroyed or close to be destroyed

Author conclusion - perspective but needed to be improved and made of higher quality materials. In current conditions is not fit for service at frontline, but can be used by police and other units with low intensity of fire and non-frontline conditions. (However author did not go into deep design analysis, it's just "operator" perspective). Author also claims that Czech (he probably means Bren 2s) and Belgian (he means FN SCAR) guns don't have issues to such scale as Polish Grots.


 
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Sounds like they don't pick the right materials, or they don't heat treat the steel correctly. Not enough glass fill fibre in the plastic?
 
According to some Polish friends: Grots in video from Ukraine are Grot A0 modified to A1 configuration. Latest generation is Grot A2.

Video in Polish (autotranslation subs available) explaining difference between A1 and A2:

 
A bit off topic, but I heard the Tavors Ukraine has been building on license have been falling apart, and the production stopped. Anyone hear anything on that?
 
greentips said:
C21 only prohibits any semi designed before the date of the law IIRC. So Grot is fine but it is probably more of an issue of actually getting any. The semi version has been for sale in Poland and the EU awhile ago.

Someone tried some years ago but nothing heard.
Click to expand...

I think it's after the date of the law (ie: no new ones). Otherwise rifles like the Tavor, T97, RDB/RFG, SKS, etc, would be prohibited.
 
DVX said:
I think it's after the date of the law (ie: no new ones). Otherwise rifles like the Tavor, T97, RDB/RFG, SKS, etc, would be prohibited.
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probably a typo there.

Probably not a good risk to reward before a regime change in ottawa, on submitting any new military style rifles
 
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