Expected velocity loss and effective range for 338 WinMag out of a 20 inch barrel?

prarie_boy said:
Out of curiosity what are you getting for velocity ?
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With the 225 grain Accubond - the load that I worked up to is shown as "most accurate" powder and load in Nosler 9 - I get just under 2,800 fps from my Winchester Model 70 with 24" barrel. There are other loads shown in that book - other powders - closer to 2,900 fps from their 24" barrel. For my velocities, I was using an elderly Shooting Chrony.
 
Potashminer said:
With the 225 grain Accubond - the load that I worked up to is shown as "most accurate" powder and load in Nosler 9 - I get just under 2,800 fps from my Winchester Model 70 with 24" barrel. There are other loads shown in that book - other powders - closer to 2,900 fps from their 24" barrel. For my velocities, I was using an elderly Shooting Chrony.
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That will have some smack!
 
Depends, perhaps, what you think is "smack" - we get black bears in our yard - sooner or later the old bulldog will take on one - that one won't run like the others have done - and dog will get it's butt handed to it - so "Grandpa" has thought how I would settle the issue - I have been out back three times now with loaded rifle, but dog always smart enough to return to us at our call. The rifle / cartridge of choice, for that, is a Husqvarna Large Ring Mauser - likely Model 649 - in 9.3x62 with 250 grain Accubonds - has been my choice to keep that one handy, versus that 338 Win Mag - no more 286 grain bullets left - Woodleigh 320 grain are on tap for next load development in that rifle. I have no sight line beyond about 40 yards, so I expect it to be a "one shot" fight, when things happen. The bear will have to be "stopped"- it would be nice if it also gets dead as well, but a kill shot, that does not stop it, will not likely end well for me or the dog.
 
pathfinder76 said:
Can you translate that?
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complete and total fluke?, not getting the entire story (how many shots, how far the recovery etc.)?, or worlds toughest elk with kevlar bones?....not a single part of that story adds up so just looking for more info, ie; all the info

it's almost laughable to think a 230 eld-x from a 338 wm even at the muzzle will penetrate on a similar vein as a .243 with a 55 gr varmint bullet let alone the 2200 fps he said...that bullet will go through a couple feet of elk minimum and highly unlikely to deflect/skid along ribs due to malleable nature, the apparently wimpier eld-m's do better than that and from a lot wimpier cartridges,

something just doesn't not add up, that's a .288 sd big time pill well in the best window to make it do great work while penetrating more than adequately on large heavy game, its hardly a marshmallow, here's a 178 eld-x impacting around 1800 fps from a 308 on a 350-500 lb stag, little smaller than elk, and was found in offside nice mushroom, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf-W10OaHcg I've been shooting little 123 eld-m from 6.5 really slow that are going ~20" through whatever I point it at, can't seem to keep bullets in anything deer size unless out there a bit and or extreme quartering, have had a moose femur shut down my baby eld-m but 6" of it gone, that's about the shortest penetration I can recall from the past 18 animals, this won't be a repeatable experience from that bullet/cartridge combo so it simply sounds unbelievable and should likely be caveated as a one off fluke or we're not getting all info possible or it was misinterpreted

seems a hot potato, people didn't want to call for more clarity on it, I can't be the only one that wasn't buying that tale, haven't even looked up reports on that combo to see if positive etc., pretty confident it's about as solid a choice you could hunt with going...and that I'd find a boatload of stories we'd expect to hear for a 230 gr eld-x from a 338 wm...highest Killy factor lol, splash...I just can't, the only thing that pill will splash on is heavy steel plates
 
blakeyboy said:
complete and total fluke?, not getting the entire story (how many shots, how far the recovery etc.)?, or worlds toughest elk with kevlar bones?....not a single part of that story adds up so just looking for more info, ie; all the info

it's almost laughable to think a 230 eld-x from a 338 wm even at the muzzle will penetrate on a similar vein as a .243 with a 55 gr varmint bullet let alone the 2200 fps he said...that bullet will go through a couple feet of elk minimum and highly unlikely to deflect/skid along ribs due to malleable nature, the apparently wimpier eld-m's do better than that and from a lot wimpier cartridges,

something just doesn't not add up, that's a .288 sd big time pill well in the best window to make it do great work while penetrating more than adequately on large heavy game, its hardly a marshmallow, here's a 178 eld-x impacting around 1800 fps from a 308 on a 350-500 lb stag, little smaller than elk, and was found in offside nice mushroom, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf-W10OaHcg I've been shooting little 123 eld-m from 6.5 really slow that are going ~20" through whatever I point it at, can't seem to keep bullets in anything deer size unless out there a bit and or extreme quartering, have had a moose femur shut down my baby eld-m but 6" of it gone, that's about the shortest penetration I can recall from the past 18 animals, this won't be a repeatable experience from that bullet/cartridge combo so it simply sounds unbelievable and should likely be caveated as a one off fluke or we're not getting all info possible or it was misinterpreted

seems a hot potato, people didn't want to call for more clarity on it, I can't be the only one that wasn't buying that tale, haven't even looked up reports on that combo to see if positive etc., pretty confident it's about as solid a choice you could hunt with going...and that I'd find a boatload of stories we'd expect to hear for a 230 gr eld-x from a 338 wm...highest Killy factor lol, splash...I just can't, the only thing that pill will splash on is heavy steel plates
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Check out YouTube 338 eld review. Complete bullet failures on a frigging watermelon. Guy had a bunch of water jugs behind the watermelon. They looked like they'd been shot with birdshot. Close range but a watermelon? Good target bullet, dismal hunter.
 
Mike Webb said:
Check out YouTube 338 eld review. Complete bullet failures on a frigging watermelon. Guy had a bunch of water jugs behind the watermelon. They looked like they'd been shot with birdshot. Close range but a watermelon? Good target bullet, dismal hunter.
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Did some digging, found the same reports for eldx period, all with dead animals, but because marketed as hunting bullet they expected delayed controlled round performance when knife came out. Thats all, successful but misinterpreted type of performance based on marketing. That’s a deadly formula if you like more drt’s and shorter recoveries. Basically just modern more slippery psp’s. An eldm made a little less better with bit more jacket etc to cater to those who need marketing to help choose their bullets. They work, like blue box psp, like all other psp’s. When marketing fails, astute students see them no different than any other cup/core and just buy match eldm and save money, rather than pay for that marketing for same performance. I will say, the bombs that go off on those videos is impressive, not much will go far taking one of those anywhere, that’s why all the reports come with dead animals attached. Misinterpretation of performance when knife comes out also. Not seeing a trend of ‘I couldn’t find it’ reports, barnes guys know that tune though, they definitely know the longer recovery tune. Whatever insurance you need you can get, but if you ran them head to head with a mono or bonded and tracked drt and recovery ratios...you’ll see which one trends the shorter recoveries and more drt’s. But that’s another thread.

Good exercise, all answers available, and now we know what an eldx really is. That’s all that need to be said. If you’re after delayed controlled expansion performance stick to mono, bonded or the top 20th century interpretation...the partition. If you like the psp or rapid controlled expansion performance then you can find that too with older 20th century psp or modern eld, ballistic tip, amax etc. Which let you take things further than you did in 20th. So many people whine online about how a bullet is marketed so Hornady did why they wanted lol. This would be a lot easier if they type of construction was the only thing on the box along with sd range indicating class size of game appropriate. That would be too easy though.

Mystery solved Chuck. No such thing as a 230 gr .288 sd varmint bullet lol.
 
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I just picked up a Leupold VX5-HD which comes with the option of a custom CDS dial.

I was considering sending in the ballistic data for the 230 Grain ELD-X as it appears to be the best long range option.

Is there any other load that compares to the 230 ELD-X in downrange ballistics?
 
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blakeyboy said:
Did some digging, found the same reports for eldx period, all with dead animals, but because marketed as hunting bullet they expected delayed controlled round performance when knife came out. Thats all, successful but misinterpreted type of performance based on marketing. That’s a deadly formula if you like more drt’s and shorter recoveries. Basically just modern more slippery psp’s. An eldm made a little less better with bit more jacket etc to cater to those who need marketing to help choose their bullets. They work, like blue box psp, like all other psp’s. When marketing fails, astute students see them no different than any other cup/core and just buy match eldm and save money, rather than pay for that marketing for same performance. I will say, the bombs that go off on those videos is impressive, not much will go far taking one of those anywhere, that’s why all the reports come with dead animals attached. Misinterpretation of performance when knife comes out also. Not seeing a trend of ‘I couldn’t find it’ reports, barnes guys know that tune though, they definitely know the longer recovery tune. Whatever insurance you need you can get, but if you ran them head to head with a mono or bonded and tracked drt and recovery ratios...you’ll see which one trends the shorter recoveries and more drt’s. But that’s another thread.

Good exercise, all answers available, and now we know what an eldx really is. That’s all that need to be said. If you’re after delayed controlled expansion performance stick to mono, bonded or the top 20th century interpretation...the partition. If you like the psp or rapid controlled expansion performance then you can find that too with older 20th century psp or modern eld, ballistic tip, amax etc. Which let you take things further than you did in 20th. So many people whine online about how a bullet is marketed so Hornady did why they wanted lol. This would be a lot easier if they type of construction was the only thing on the box along with sd range indicating class size of game appropriate. That would be too easy though.

Mystery solved Chuck. No such thing as a 230 gr .288 sd varmint bullet lol.
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Tell as more about your experience with the 338 WM.
 
Northern Shooter said:
I just picked up a Leupold VX5-HD which comes with the option of a custom CDS dial.

I was considering sending in the ballistic data for the 230 Grain ELD-X as it appears to be the best long range option.

Is there any other load that compares to the 230 ELD-X in downrange ballistics?
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I am likely tremendously "old school" - I still use trajectory tables - so I would need a Ballistic Co-efficient for that bullet - most of the tables I have use G1 B.C., and then a muzzle velocity - in order to find that trajectory chart. I do not see any charts that refer to bullet weight or bullet brand to calculate trajectory. Is a pure guess on my part, but I would think that various other bullets - pointy front end and boat tail rear end - maybe like Accubond - might have similar B.C. values? But I do not know, without going through the various choices, one by one, to compare - there must exist some software that does that these days?
 
Potashminer said:
I am likely tremendously "old school" - I still use trajectory tables - so I would need a Ballistic Co-efficient for that bullet - most of the tables I have use G1 B.C., and then a muzzle velocity - in order to find that trajectory chart. I do not see any charts that refer to bullet weight or bullet brand to calculate trajectory. Is a pure guess on my part, but I would think that various other bullets - pointy front end and boat tail rear end - maybe like Accubond - might have similar B.C. values? But I do not know, without going through the various choices, one by one, to compare - there must exist some software that does that these days?
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According to the Hornady website the 230 Grain ELD-X has a G1 BC of .616 with a MV of 2,810 fps.
 
Northern Shooter said:
According to the Hornady website the 230 Grain ELD-X has a G1 BC of .616 with a MV of 2,810 fps.
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That is a very healthy B.C. number - most that I use are at most in the .400's. If you have cut 4" or 6" off your barrel, no real good reason to expect that you will get that muzzle velocity - is many variations that I have read, but not unlikely that you will loose circa 25 or 30 fps Muzzle Velocity for each inch of barrel that you chop off - so 4 " removed - to 20" - is not unreasonable to expect that you will be at least 100 fps slower than a 24" barrel that the Hornady factory likely used - depends somewhat on your and their barrel and chamber, but you could be as much as 200 fps slower than they advertise. Not likely that you will know, unless you chronograph that load in your shortened barrel.

I have noticed, for decades, there is usually some "marketer's enthusiasm" in most numbers that are sold - B.C. tend to be exaggerated; same as muzzle velocity - is a LOT to be said for determining those things yourself, with your gear. Might be similar; might be MUCH different. And, as other have found, if "trajectory" is your only concern, you often get same with slower muzzle velocity and higher B.C. - or same with smaller bore diameter - all goes to amount of recoil, generally.

You can even just shoot, to determine that - where is your group at 100 yards - where is same load, same sight picture at 300 yards - that is your trajectory that you are getting - a function of that bullet's true B.C. and the true muzzle velocity that you are getting from your outfit. Of course, once out at range, you also have to account for wind direction - from your muzzle in increments all the way to the target - calm, left wind, right wind along the same bullet path. What the wind speed and direction is on the ground, might not mean much if your bullet is passing 30 feet higher than that - in midrange, for very long range.
 
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pathfinder76 said:
Tell as more about your experience with the 338 WM.
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you go first, start with your eldx experiences

remember you're standing on YouTube watermelon video and you're a guy who often comments that 'on game' is pretty tough to replicate in testing so interesting standpoint, how many other cup and cores will look exactly the same as the watermelon? and how many bonded, mono, partitions go further? this is a simple subject and the answers are all here now, the eld-x may be marketed as a hunting bullet but it's the same performance window as every other cup and core pointed soft point eldm amax ballistic tip etc. etc. how many varying reports from barnes running around? more or less than eldx? you sure we need spin the wheels on this one? all Todd has to do going forward is just comment that's the performance window for eldx, which is quite well known, it's a rapid expansion no different than any eldm or the like, it WILL not go as deep as delayed controlled expansion bullets do up close, it will kick those bullets arse though as soon as you get past 300 yards and double the effective distance and performance window so depends what you want...if you want to walk up to them right after shooting, one formula does that more than the other ;)
 
Todbartell doesn’t owe you an explanation for anything “going forward”. Maybe the guy with blood on his hands doesn’t need a lecture. Cup and core bullet performance won’t improve with increased resistance.
 
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all I did was ask for more info, we go way back to air pistol days me and Todbartell I know what I said when I said it, the 230 eldx is not a marshmallow freak in the world of bullets, so, was looking for more info to help explain the weird result, that does happen, although my 6.5 grendel with 123 gr only .251 sd eldm hasn't had any of those in 6 years and 18 animals, you can maybe appreciate the argument, surprised Todbartell didn't simply caveat things a bit better, it's not a delayed controlled round expansion bullet, the elk is dead...zero surprise from moi

hardly a big thing but you put on the forum that it's something it's not, caveat a 'likely fluke' can't explain...any other things killed with it? any other surprises or success regular expected? how far did the elk go, any more shots, the FULL story...nothing wrong with asking for all that no? nothing...just that 'you shouldn't use that...it's a marshmallow'....not good enough, not really Todbartell either so that surprised me a bit, that 230 eldx is more than good enough lol
 
I have heard 60ft/second for every inch. Mostly I consider the larger the projected tile the slower the powder. Seems rather pointless to try slow powders, 250ish gr bullets, 303 velocity, and a two foot fireball of unburnt powder. Maybe consider some of the smaller bullets for the 338 bore range of 165-300. Carry a larger load when your walking back into your moose, or see a microwave sized pile of partly processed berries. A short range it wouldn't matter, and some of the small bullets would be faster than the same weight in a 308nm.
 
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