Mystery Jungle Carbine

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Binderpilot

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I recently purchased a nice jungle Carbine, serial no. X914. I have only seen 4 number serials. 3 numbers has me puzzled.
Can anyone give me any insight as to what I have?
 
According to Skennerton

ROF Fazakerley 1944-1947 were FE, no letter prefix, then A-Z, then AA-AF; all with 4 numbers

I'm wondering based on the above (OP and Torandir) that it should be 4 'digits'...... not 4 numbers
 
I saw that No5 at the Salmon Arm gun show.

It's a very nice piece and all matching with an excellent bore.

As Paul T says, it's the falls under the first thousand rifles to be built in 1946 under the X prefix, which puts it fairly late in the production runs.

I should have scooped it while I had the chance but another very decent vendor beat me to it.
 
I am puzzled by the serial numbers mentioned. The No.4 X block is accepted as a group of BSA serial numbers assigned to clean up the sniper rifle contracts, and is reported as the last of BSA's 665,00-odd rifles.

My copy of Chip Stratton's No.4 and No.5 rifles has tables of serial numbers. I'm not entirely sure of his methodology, but ... 1944 No.5 rifles from Fazakerley are A to E, and 1945 No.5s are F to T (without H,I,and J). The 1946 range ought to have X, but is only U,V,W and Y. The 1947 range picks up Y and Z, then goes to double digits. I have a 1945 BSA No.4(T) rifle X and 5 digits. Stratton also mentions another X block for No.4s by BSA in 1942.

Were the workmen so sloppy that they'd stamp a wrong serial number? I don't think so. Yes, mistakes happen. BSA's numbers are often badly lined up and varying depths, but unless there was a reason, I rule out 'oh $hit!' numbers. The inspectors were not that desperate to accept noncompliant production.
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
I am puzzled by the serial numbers mentioned. The No.4 X block is accepted as a group of BSA serial numbers assigned to clean up the sniper rifle contracts, and is reported as the last of BSA's 665,00-odd rifles.

My copy of Chip Stratton's No.4 and No.5 rifles has tables of serial numbers. I'm not entirely sure of his methodology, but ... 1944 No.5 rifles from Fazakerley are A to E, and 1945 No.5s are F to T (without H,I,and J). The 1946 range ought to have X, but is only U,V,W and Y. The 1947 range picks up Y and Z, then goes to double digits. I have a 1945 BSA No.4(T) rifle X and 5 digits. Stratton also mentions another X block for No.4s by BSA in 1942.

Were the workmen so sloppy that they'd stamp a wrong serial number? I don't think so. Yes, mistakes happen. BSA's numbers are often badly lined up and varying depths, but unless there was a reason, I rule out 'oh $hit!' numbers. The inspectors were not that desperate to accept noncompliant production.
Click to expand...


It's been my understanding that the X prefix was not unusual and just included in production runs.

When I looked at that receiver and its markings, it looked fine, not a scrub/restamp, which is usually quite noticeable.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
I am puzzled by the serial numbers mentioned. The No.4 X block is accepted as a group of BSA serial numbers assigned to clean up the sniper rifle contracts, and is reported as the last of BSA's 665,00-odd rifles.

My copy of Chip Stratton's No.4 and No.5 rifles has tables of serial numbers. I'm not entirely sure of his methodology, but ... 1944 No.5 rifles from Fazakerley are A to E, and 1945 No.5s are F to T (without H,I,and J). The 1946 range ought to have X, but is only U,V,W and Y. The 1947 range picks up Y and Z, then goes to double digits. I have a 1945 BSA No.4(T) rifle X and 5 digits. Stratton also mentions another X block for No.4s by BSA in 1942.

Were the workmen so sloppy that they'd stamp a wrong serial number? I don't think so. Yes, mistakes happen. BSA's numbers are often badly lined up and varying depths, but unless there was a reason, I rule out 'oh $hit!' numbers. The inspectors were not that desperate to accept noncompliant production.
Click to expand...

What Edition of Stratton? My 3rd edition makes no mention of X prefix for either ROF or BSA for No5 rifles.

Table F-7 ROF Fazakerley
1944 A,B,C,D,E
1945 F,G,L,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T
1946 U,V,W,Y
1947 Y,Z,AA,AB,AC

Table F-8 BSA Shirley
1945 BB,BD,BE,BF,BG
1946 BH,BJ
1947 BK
(but Table F-15 says BB through BM total range)
 
Paul_T said:
What Edition of Stratton? My 3rd edition makes no mention of X prefix for either ROF or BSA for No5 rifles.

Table F-7 ROF Fazakerley
1944 A,B,C,D,E
1945 F,G,L,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T
1946 U,V,W,Y
1947 Y,Z,AA,AB,AC

Table F-8 BSA Shirley
1945 BB,BD,BE,BF,BG
1946 BH,BJ
1947 BK
(but Table F-15 says BB through BM total range)
Click to expand...

Second edition, revised 1999 and 2003. We are reading the same information. The X is in the No.4 table for BSA rifles, Table F-1. I haven't seen X serial numbers in his tables of No.5s Table F-7.

I read somewhere that Skip (sorry, not Chip) did most of his research pre-Internet by surveying collections with data gathering sheets. There are methodology pitfalls with that approach.
 
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