WK180 or SKS ??? Pros/cons

[Painkillers]

I wouldn't buy an SKS, unless your motivations are historical. It has nearly every disadvantage against the 180 platform in general.

For all the praises of durability, remember that the SKS is a cheap, bargain surplus rifle. There is a variance in service histories, mismatched serialized parts, use of corrosive ammo, storage conditions etc. The last SKS I shot had an issue where it fired an automatic burst! (I guessed cosmoline caked in the sear/trigger mech?)

I bought a Wk180c gen 1 for 1000 CAD on the original pre-order in 2018. It was quite accurate and reliable for shooting targets at a range. Then I sold it to a friend who needed something non-res after the OIC and he still has it.

Think about the shooting experience: you want to shoot with iron sights or an optic? Stripper clips or box mags? Pistol grip or wood stock? These are completely different rifles.

Psst, your ignorance is showing.

Do a little reading on the SKS. Its has a free floating firing pin in the bolt that, yes, can cause a well known malfunction. Any rifle that's been neglected can cause problems, for the SKS that can equate to emptying the box mag in the blink on an eye...keep that muzzle down range when chambering.
As far as cheaply made and mismatched parts...wrong on both points. The rifles were surplus, and dumped on the market for pennies on the dollar of what they're actually worth. Particularly the Russian ones.
All that said, I agree with your last statements regarding the shooting experience. They are different rifles.

 

[Horilka]

For all the praises of durability, remember that the SKS is a cheap, bargain surplus rifle.

I blame modern education... But let's try... What do current going price and availability have to do with reliability or quality of firearm?

 

[Jube]

I blame modern education... But let's try... What do current going price and availability have to do with reliability or quality of firearm?

It probably is modern education, but I'll hold your hand through the explanation and you might understand anyways...

The supply and demand factors in the market have nothing to do with quality; (I am clarifying since that was where you got stuck.) The point I have made is that these are surplus kit, mass produced 60 something years ago. Issued to soldiers, then withdrawn from service and warehoused, refurbished for the civilian market. Don't compare this to a new rifle; in fact they vary to the point that some businesses would charge a premium to customers that wanted to pick a specific example out of their stock!

Let me also say that I've shot more SKS than wk180's. I don't have a problem with them, the stripper clip reload is quite fun... But they aren't that great.

 

[Painkillers]

It probably is modern education, but I'll hold your hand through the explanation and you might understand anyways...

The supply and demand factors in the market have nothing to do with quality; (I am clarifying since that was where you got stuck.) The point I have made is that these are surplus kit, mass produced 60 something years ago. Issued to soldiers, then withdrawn from service and warehoused, refurbished for the civilian market. Don't compare this to a new rifle; in fact they vary to the point that some businesses would charge a premium to customers that wanted to pick a specific example out of their stock!

Let me also say that I've shot more SKS than wk180's. I don't have a problem with them, the stripper clip reload is quite fun... But they aren't that great.

The vast majority of them in Canada were non-issued surplus.
As the Russians were building the majority of these, the AK 47's versatility was being discovered and ultimately embraced. This equated to what must have been warehouses of unissued SKS's coated in cosmoline and crated for the next nearly 70 years or so.

Then there were the Chicom factory 26 SKS's. There again, unissued since their creation...while in my opinion, inferior to the Russian variant, still brand new as the Russian ones were.

So issued, withdrawn, mismatched numbers, don't compare this to a new rifle...all inherently untrue. Sorry bro, but you don't know what you're talking about here.

 

[Jube]

The vast majority of them in Canada were non-issued surplus.

..Then there were the Chicom factory 26 SKS's. There again, unissued since their creation...while in my opinion, inferior to the Russian variant, still brand new as the Russian ones were.

Is that true? I'm only going off information that I have gained from handling them or reading posts here on this forum, and what retailers are describing. Threads like this one:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1496345-We-ve-got-Chinese-SKS-Rifles-in-stock!

I had always thought it was uncommon for an SKS to be unrefurbished, I'll take your word for it though and stand corrected

 

[fritzhanzel]

Is that true? I'm only going off information that I have gained from handling them or reading posts here on this forum, and what retailers are describing. Threads like this one:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1496345-We-ve-got-Chinese-SKS-Rifles-in-stock!

I had always thought it was uncommon for an SKS to be unrefurbished, I'll take your word for it though and stand corrected

Refurbish in regards to Russian SKS means check over, mostly only reblueing or other kind of finish and stock replacement. Most laminated ones are replacement stocks. The Russian SKS was more or less obsolete very fast (AK47), war time SKS issued to other countries are very rarely seen in Canada. They usually look like ####.

 

[Gatehouse]

I've had many SKS rifles, bought the first ones for $75 when they were pouring into Canada buy the shipload. So SKS are almost nostalgic for me.

But these days I'd get a 180 for sure. They are just easier to do everything with, from loading to mounting optics and takedown. The one drawback is that ammo is more expensive than crates of surplus x39.

 

[BrownR]

I've had many SKS rifles, bought the first ones for $75 when they were pouring into Canada buy the shipload. So SKS are almost nostalgic for me.

But these days I'd get a 180 for sure. They are just easier to do everything with, from loading to mounting optics and takedown. The one drawback is that ammo is more expensive than crates of surplus x39.

Well you can get a wk180 chambered in 762x39 as well

 

[05RAV]

Then there were the Chicom factory 26 SKS's. There again, unissued since their creation...while in my opinion, inferior to the Russian variant, still brand new as the Russian ones were.

I bought one about a year ago. Factory /26\, a French tickler plastic gas cover, brand new in cosmoline. Fantastic rifle, shoots like a champ. On par with my 2 other Russian SKS's (one is a letter series 1957 gorgeous laminate). And, indeed, it is a bit more accurate than a Russian one, mostly because of immaculate rifling. Paid $520 at that time.

 

[JBond66]

I have both and I like both of them . The 180 is great for accessories and is a great platform to build off right out of the box. Ammo isn’t the cheapest which is my biggest complain . I only have the gen 1 version and the receiver seems a bit loose, maybe there’s a fix for that but I know the Gen 2 is better. The sks hasn’t let me down over the 10 years I’ve owned it . Give it a good clean once in a while and keep going , I put a war tack top rail on for a scope , super simple and sturdy. I like both but I think sks will hold up longer.

 

[DVX]

If you want something that looks "AR'ish" with rails you can jam pack full of little lights and lasers you'll never actually use, that will most likely see parts break very early on in its life, the WK is for you.

If you want something that is tough, that will go bang when you want it to, and will probably out live you, get an SKS.

 

[DVX]

I wouldn't buy an SKS, unless your motivations are historical. It has nearly every disadvantage against the 180 platform in general.

For all the praises of durability, remember that the SKS is a cheap, bargain surplus rifle. There is a variance in service histories, mismatched serialized parts, use of corrosive ammo, storage conditions etc. The last SKS I shot had an issue where it fired an automatic burst! (I guessed cosmoline caked in the sear/trigger mech?)

I bought a Wk180c gen 1 for 1000 CAD on the original pre-order in 2018. It was quite accurate and reliable for shooting targets at a range. Then I sold it to a friend who needed something non-res after the OIC and he still has it.

Think about the shooting experience: you want to shoot with iron sights or an optic? Stripper clips or box mags? Pistol grip or wood stock? These are completely different rifles.

It has every disadvantage except it works when you need it to. Pick your poison.

There's nothing revolutionary about the WK. It's also a cheap, bargain bin rifle. It just happens to be a domestically made product, which over inflates the price, on top of the NR tax which inflates it even more. Lets be honest here. The WK is an over priced bargain bin rifle that has a reputation for failure.

Your experience with the SKS slam firing isn't a design flaw. It just means the owner is a doofus who doesn't know how to clean their bolt/bolt carrier properly.

 

[veeshooter]

It has every disadvantage except it works when you need it to. Pick your poison.

There's nothing revolutionary about the WK. It's also a cheap, bargain bin rifle. It just happens to be a domestically made product, which over inflates the price, on top of the NR tax which inflates it even more. Lets be honest here. The WK is an over priced bargain bin rifle that has a reputation for failure.

Your experience with the SKS slam firing isn't a design flaw. It just means the owner is a doofus who doesn't know how to clean their bolt/bolt carrier properly.

In the early 90s, I overlooked the SKS as I was busy buying FNs, HKs and AKs. Over the last decade or so, I've developed a real love for the SKS, and If I could get in my hot tub time machine to go back, I would have bought them by the case when they were $79 to $99 each! I've had 3 now in various configurations, and I have yet to experience a single failure with any of them FWIW.

 

[421SuperDuty]

I wonder how the commercial Norinco ones that Marstar was selling for like $100 compare to the military surplus ones?

 

[thegazelle]

I have both, though I must qualify that my SKSes are all Russian ones 52-54, while the WK that I have is generation 1.5. That does make a big difference in my view, and would lead me to lean towards a preference for the SKS...here's why (and this is just one old fart's opinion).

SKS Pros:

1. Impressibly reliable given its age. Never had a feed or eject issue.
2. Fun to shoot - self explanatory - my lukewarm-to-guns son loved shooting it. My SKSes (I have 7) are second most frequent guns brought to the range.
3. Gun is relatively cheap, unless you are buying a collectors' grade one
4. Ammo is cheap, with choices of non-corrosive or corrosive
5. A must have for those who love history or like sentimental stuff. Things like coming with oil can, ammo pouch, etc. may appeal to collectors.
6. Easy to operate. I would go so far as to say almost flawless operation.
7. Easy to take apart and reassemble
8. This isn't really a pro for me, but I know others it is - it can be sporterized and therefore customized for more modern aesthetics and accessories. Make it look like an AK, or whatever strikes your fancy.
9. Great rifle for beginners - aside from operationally, having new shooters train with iron sights is a good practice to learn fundamental shooting skills (in my opinion) rather than the ease of using an optic.

SKS Cons:

1. Must check to see if the firing pin rattles. If not, you may be subject to a slamfire. It is easy to take apart the FP and clean the channel to prevent this. Similar thing to look for is seized sear due to gunk accumulation in the trigger assembly.
2. Reloadable 7.62x39 rounds are more expensive to shoot, all things considered
3. Legally stuck to 5 round limit - so no way to use a 10-round LAR15 mag on it
4. Can get fleeced by sellers who don't know enough about SKSes and claim it is all original, unfired, unissued, etc. I just had a CGNer just last week claim his SKS was non refurbished, and sent me the photos - I told him where the refurbishment marks were in the photos and told him what the original parts would have looked like based on the year, etc. You'd be amazed how many people are convinced they have a mint conditioned, unfired, unissued and unaltered rifle, when a cursory glance will easily reveal otherwise.
5. The SKS is not a tack driver, so don't expect to win accuracy competitions
6. Nowhere to put optics, especially for old guys with bad eyes (just sayin')
7. Always need to check the condition of the gas tube/piston rod. A impeccable exterior stock/receiver may not reveal that the gas tube / piston rod is seized due to non-cleaning after incessant use of corrosive ammo (I found this out the hard way in buying on previously). This can be fixed, but something for any buyer to consider.

Now, for the WK-180...again, my experience is purely with a generation 1.5 (non magnetic CH as in G1, but not the HT threaded one)

WK180 Pros:

1. Modern semi-auto sporter
2. Takes LAR15 and AR mags
3. Decent accuracy out of the box (at least for mine)
4. Excellent customer service - when I stripped my handguard screws, I just wrote them and the next day a new set was sent out to me. I wish they would send me a better/improved CH though (see next section)
5. Relatively easy to take apart and clean.
6. Canadian made - I know for some people, they may not see that as a plus, but I do, insofar as service, etc.
7. You can buy it in a couple of calibers.

WK180 Cons (again, based on my 1.5 gen)

1. Charging handle constantly loosens with use. Even with putting a metal rod through the CH holes and turning with all my might, it loosens. Yes, I can loctite it, but I clean it often so prefer not to. Yes, I know Spectre sells/sold the improved HT threaded charging handle
2. Worksmanship is iffy. Whole thing rattles like my 15 year old Japanese SUV vehicle. My handguard screws loosened over time (6 of 8 of them). I also dodged a bullet but checking the gas block screws on a lark and thank goodness, noticed they were super loose and I tightened them, with loctite...which leads me to...
3. Common problem on this one is broken gas piston rod...almost guaranteed to be from the often-reported loose gas block screws. Also common issue is sheared threaded charging handle from Gen 1.5)
4. No last round bolt hold open / bolt release (yes, I know they fixed this in G2, and TNA has a kit you can retrofit Gen 1 - 1.5)
5. Could use brass deflector so as for ejected rounds to not mar the finish of the receiver. This is purely aesthetics, but still annoying.
6. More expensive than SKS...the Gen2s are significantly more expensive. In my opinion, WKs are overpriced, irrespective of generation, for what you are getting.

I am sure I could think of more and may add to the list as stuff comes to mind but that's it for now...

 

[thegazelle]

The last SKS I shot had an issue where it fired an automatic burst! (I guessed cosmoline caked in the sear/trigger mech?)

Wrong. A cosmoline caked sear / channel would cause the trigger not to be reset. I know this because I bought one that did just that. Fixed it myself after taking it apart - I have a thread on this somewhere.

What you experienced is due to the firing pin being seized in the FP channel, causing the slamfire you experienced. This is easily fixable, and is not an issue with the gun per se (except one can argue that maybe the free floating firing pin was a bad design, but other guns use the same type of FF FP). There are varying degrees of how badly the FP is stuck. One that I bought it was stuck so badly that even when I took out the FP retaining pin, I had to use pliers to pull out the firing pin. It was like a sticky molasses convention in that FP channel. No amount of boiling the complete bolt assembly or having it sit in Brake Kleen loosened the crud. Had to hammer out the firing pin retaining pin and with pliers, yank out the stuck firing pin like a tooth before doing a super clean on it (starting with the reboiling of the whole assembly with the FP out).

 

[nbd]

Im using lar15 mags on my sks.
Its awesome dropping full 10 from a clip into it.

 

[Lt.]

Im using lar15 mags on my sks.
Its awesome dropping full 10 from a clip into it.

What's the reliability with that like? I am on a waiting list for the next run of magwell adapters.

 

[BrownR]

I’m liking the idea of a sks )) all though don’t it fall in to the bill c 21 that’s law now ?? Or am I wrong and the sks isn’t affected by it ?

 

[thegazelle]

I’m liking the idea of a sks )) all though don’t it fall in to the bill c 21 that’s law now ?? Or am I wrong and the sks isn’t affected by it ?

The G46/G4 amendments which listed the guns that the LPC wanted to be included in C21 (for which the SKS was listed) was withdrawn earlier this year. So the SKS is not affected by C21 directly.

BUT.

C21 calls for the re-establishment of the Firearms Advisory Council (FAC) which will review what currently exists and will propose inclusions in future bans via OIC. That is not just conjecture. Previous PS Minister Marco Mendicino said that. I have little doubt they will just use the G46/G4 amendments as their basis/starting point. Based on what is stipulated as the characteristic criteria for which future firearms are prohibited in Canada (ie. semi auto, centerfire, mag that holds more than 6 rounds, etc.), the reconstituting of the FAC was done to capture what the 2020 OIC missed. The SKS will absolutely be targeted...the Polys expressly isolated the SKS as their point of disappointment that it was not banned. Whether the SKS will ultimately be banned is anyone's guess, as many do in fact use it for hunting, but we have seen with this government, can't really apply any logical rhyme or reason to its decisions, aside from knowing their overarching objective which is ultimately to ban civilian firearms ownership...this has been in their playbook for decades.

Certainly a PP CPC government will provide a respite - for a few years at least.