7.62x39 bolt gun which one?
- Thread starter Tinybear
- Start date
Federal Blue box 123gr soft point.
I've got the same sight for my RAR in x39. Two things-- I initially installed it the same way you did with the scope base clamp bolt heads to the left, however if you look at the pictures from the manufacturer, they actually show them installed on the right. There's just enough room to clear the bolt throw, and reversing it will move the sight further back. Additionally, if you take off the factory rail and reverse the orientation, that'll give you an additional rearward Picatinny slot to mount on. These two things allowed me to go from using the low cantilever mount to the low straight mount which reduces sight height. Add a cheek riser, and you can actually get a cheek weld with proper eye relief.
Hmmm...a highly accurate .308...or an x39 weighing a couple pounds more, with far shorter ranging capability and likely far, far less accuracy. Tough choice.
And lest I sound too sarcastic...a clarification. I will often choose a "lesser" (in ranging and/or accuracy) rifle over a superior one, if I think it adds a fun factor. In fact, poorer accuracy is pretty immaterial, within reasonable limits, if the cartridge being shot has limited range; as long as it's accurate enough to produce acceptably small groups at the ranges at which it will be used, why not? The .30-30 in a model 94 is a perfect example of a gun that adds a lot of fun to the equation for many people, despite...or perhaps because of...its limitations.
But, man, allowing an x39 budget bolt rifle to gain a couple pounds of weight...still results in an x39 budget bolt rifle...but in this case it becomes, IMHO, way less fun...
To each his own!
Sorry I missed this.
I haven't brought logic to many of the activities I engage in. Why do I wear a Swiss watch when my smart phone is more accurate... I like Swiss watches I guess.
That said, the Sig Cross in .308 isn't what I would call highly accurate out of the box. It took a bunch of ladder loads and projectile seating depth trials to find the sweet spot. After all that, it gets slightly better than MOA with a tailored Barnes TTSX load, which is great for a 16" .308 pushing a 130gr monolithic at ~2950fps.
200m on in, the measly Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39 when given the same opportunity to tailor handloads as the .308 Cross has no trouble printing groups as good as the .308 Cross. Squeaking out this much accuracy from a round that has the ballistics of a school bus is the fun factor for me. Plus you can shoot it all day without worrying about overheating the barrel (it's cheap and heavy).
I've since added a fully adjustable MDT folder and a Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x56 to it. Silk hat on a pig... The important thing is that I enjoy it
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...I haven't brought logic to many of the activities I engage in. Why do I wear a Swiss watch when my smart phone is more accurate... I like Swiss watches I guess....... The important thing is that I enjoy it
And that, of course, is the only justification any of us need when it comes to playing with our toys.
My Sig seems to be much less picky than some I've read about, like yours, and that makes me happy; I don't enjoy kissing a new rifle's ass to get it to shoot, and mine is MOA or very close with just about anything, and 5/8 - 3/4MOA with its favourites. It does what I had hoped for, and I like that.
My Ranch 7.62 doesn't even come close...its best group is at least 3X the size of the Sig's best...but I bought it specifically to use the several crates of the stuff I had on hand. It will never see a handload or probably even a softpoint round, will never hunt or compete in any way. It exists to shoot gongs and paper, occasionally pumpkins, ice blocks, water jugs, etc...there will never be what I consider to be an important shot taken with that gun. Aside from the optic, I doubt I will ever spend a dime on it, unless maybe to add some kind of iron sights. Again, it lives up to expectations...by providing trouble-free cheap shooting...so I'm happy with it.
Logic? We don't need no stinkin' logic...
x39 is pretty lethargic ballistically, but that does seem like a rather optimistic for a bunch of steel core surplus with salty primers.
Quote Originally Posted by jjohnwm View Post
Hmmm...a highly accurate .308...or an x39 weighing a couple pounds more, with far shorter ranging capability and likely far, far less accuracy. Tough choice.
The 7.62x39 cartridge is very similar to the Barne's 1.5x30 or the 30BR.
No, the cases can't be used to make the Barnes or BR.
However, I competed against a fellow, appx three decades back who had a reamer made up with the same shoulder but less body taper that used the 7.62x39 case for his personal competition cartridge.
He shot bullets weighing 115-125 grains through a 24in barrel with a 1-15 twist rate.
Velocities are about 25+% faster with 125 grain bullets than the 300AAC Black Out, with similar powders.
In strong rifles, the 7.62x39 can easily be loaded to 50K psi and achieve very decent velocities/energy at least as good as the 30-30Win.
Like everything else, common sense needs to be utilized when using these loads for hunting.
Its performance is quite impressive at the ranges it's best utilized, under 200 meters. Great for tree stands and close cover blinds.
The Milspec stuff is a whole different story.
Most of it is corrosive but not all of it.
I have a couple of cases left of the fantastic South African-made stuff, with .3105 diameter bullets that shoots better than most commercial offerings.
The Russian and Czech surplus not nearly as consistent. The Chinese stuff isn't great either.
When the cartridge is utilized in a decent rifle, such as the HOWA 1500, it can be safely loaded to pressures much higher than those listed in the manuals for rifles such as the SKS.
I like it a lot. Great for offhand practice, which most shooters seldom if ever do, other than with a 22rf or shotgun.
Hmmm...a highly accurate .308...or an x39 weighing a couple pounds more, with far shorter ranging capability and likely far, far less accuracy. Tough choice.
The 7.62x39 cartridge is very similar to the Barne's 1.5x30 or the 30BR.
No, the cases can't be used to make the Barnes or BR.
However, I competed against a fellow, appx three decades back who had a reamer made up with the same shoulder but less body taper that used the 7.62x39 case for his personal competition cartridge.
He shot bullets weighing 115-125 grains through a 24in barrel with a 1-15 twist rate.
Velocities are about 25+% faster with 125 grain bullets than the 300AAC Black Out, with similar powders.
In strong rifles, the 7.62x39 can easily be loaded to 50K psi and achieve very decent velocities/energy at least as good as the 30-30Win.
Like everything else, common sense needs to be utilized when using these loads for hunting.
Its performance is quite impressive at the ranges it's best utilized, under 200 meters. Great for tree stands and close cover blinds.
The Milspec stuff is a whole different story.
Most of it is corrosive but not all of it.
I have a couple of cases left of the fantastic South African-made stuff, with .3105 diameter bullets that shoots better than most commercial offerings.
The Russian and Czech surplus not nearly as consistent. The Chinese stuff isn't great either.
When the cartridge is utilized in a decent rifle, such as the HOWA 1500, it can be safely loaded to pressures much higher than those listed in the manuals for rifles such as the SKS.
I like it a lot. Great for offhand practice, which most shooters seldom if ever do, other than with a 22rf or shotgun.
I’ve explored the limits of the cartridge when it comes to reloading the x39. Biggest issue is case capacity. The usuals like IMR or H4198 will fill the case long before pressure signs appear.
CFE-Black is the best bet for pushing the limits as it’s a ball powder, but in that scenario when I hit 29 grains primers were flattened and cratered, and groups opened up. I typically run a Hornady 123gr SST over 28.5gr at a COL of 2.223”. Gives me 2320fps out of a 16” barrel and better than MOA out to 200 yards. This was the sweet spot.
Given that it's an intermediate length cartridge designed for use with constrained assault rifle mag lengths, it's a pretty peculiar choice for a bolt gun.
It's handicapped ballistically, reloading support is not great (crap brass quality), and can't really do anything more optimal boltgun cartridges could do.
I bought the Ruger when I thought I might have five figures worth of surplus x39 ammo and no “legal” way shoot it. That was a pretty big motivator. The foray into reloading for it came about through mere curiosity as to how a custom loading would compare to Chinese or Warsaw Pact ammo. There’s zero logic in this endeavour. It’s like racing a Volkswagon Beetle. It’s just fun.
For me, it's hand's down the Ruger American. I've been running a 556 model as my primary deer gun for the last 6 or 7 seasons.
Added a x39 version with a few minor upgrades:
AR Magwell conversion.
Mcarbo or Yo-dave (preferred) trigger spring.
Light optic mounted as low as possible.
It's lightweight, fast to the shoulder and shoots sub MOA with factory ammo.
I think people who complain about the bolt, haven't figured out that you have to "flick it". I run it fast and I've never had issue. Nor have i had any feeding issues (using ACS metal 6.5 Grendel or x39 mags). A buddy has his converted as well. No problem with MDT pistol mags feeding x39. No mods required.
The stock fits me like a glove, and I find it stiff enough for the lighter calibers. Once you hit 6.5 Creed you need to look at changing out the stock if you plan to do more than hunt with it. Honestly not any different than many rifles under $1500. Saw a post about adding spray foam to the stock... Like Tikka did with the T3x, making a mediocre $800 factory rifle a mediocre $1200 factory rifle.
The CZ 527, Zastava and Howa feel like driving an old tractor. The archaic 90 degree (often gritty and sloppy) bolt throw, and the need to mount the scope so high detract from the shootability for me.
I haven't tried the CZ 600 but at 2x the price of the Ruger I doubt i ever will. Maybe if they release it in 300 Blackout. Hopefully Ruger gets a shipment up here before then.
Added a x39 version with a few minor upgrades:
AR Magwell conversion.
Mcarbo or Yo-dave (preferred) trigger spring.
Light optic mounted as low as possible.
It's lightweight, fast to the shoulder and shoots sub MOA with factory ammo.
I think people who complain about the bolt, haven't figured out that you have to "flick it". I run it fast and I've never had issue. Nor have i had any feeding issues (using ACS metal 6.5 Grendel or x39 mags). A buddy has his converted as well. No problem with MDT pistol mags feeding x39. No mods required.
The stock fits me like a glove, and I find it stiff enough for the lighter calibers. Once you hit 6.5 Creed you need to look at changing out the stock if you plan to do more than hunt with it. Honestly not any different than many rifles under $1500. Saw a post about adding spray foam to the stock... Like Tikka did with the T3x, making a mediocre $800 factory rifle a mediocre $1200 factory rifle.
The CZ 527, Zastava and Howa feel like driving an old tractor. The archaic 90 degree (often gritty and sloppy) bolt throw, and the need to mount the scope so high detract from the shootability for me.
I haven't tried the CZ 600 but at 2x the price of the Ruger I doubt i ever will. Maybe if they release it in 300 Blackout. Hopefully Ruger gets a shipment up here before then.
You're just trying to do something the cartridge isn't capable of.
I use RL7 over CCI250 primers and safely achieve consistent/accurate 2500fps results out of the 19.5in bbl.
Trying to compare that to a 308Win cartridge out of a 22-26 inch bbl??????
I use H322 over CCI250 primers to push 150 grain bullets to 2250fps safely and it's a very accurate load.
You just aren't using the right loading data.
Using data for the SKS is going to limit the potential of this cartridge a lot.
The CZ 527, Zastava and Howa feel like driving an old tractor. The archaic 90 degree (often gritty and sloppy) bolt throw, and the need to mount the scope so high detract from the shootability for me.
I sold the CZ527 because I liked the Howa 1500 a lot more. Not only that, it was consistently more accurate with every load I compared when the rifles were shot side by side.
I'm not a fan of Ruger bolt actions for the most part. Nothing wrong with them, just not to my tastes.
I sold the CZ527 because I liked the Howa 1500 a lot more. Not only that, it was consistently more accurate with every load I compared when the rifles were shot side by side.
I'm not a fan of Ruger bolt actions for the most part. Nothing wrong with them, just not to my tastes.
The barrel length delta is accounting for some of the difference between your 2500 and my 2320. Right or wrong, honestly, I'm very happy with the results I'm getting with the 123gr .310" components and the powders I have on hand.
As an aside I'm flirting with 3000fps pushing 130gr TTSX out of 16" Sig Cross in sub-zero temps. The Ruger is almost a toy by comparison, but a fun one to plink with none the less, or sitting in a tree stand which I was originally considering it for this past fall.
I have a Savage Model 11, I wish I had more than 1 mag.
This thing was shooting ragged holes at 100 yards with Norinco non-corrosive ammo, I have not yet bothered to load for it.
For hunting ammo, I have 150gr Geco for it, back when I was going to use the SKS for hunting. No issues at 100 yards, I have a 1.5-6 illuminated reticle bushnell on it and it works great.
This thing was shooting ragged holes at 100 yards with Norinco non-corrosive ammo, I have not yet bothered to load for it.
For hunting ammo, I have 150gr Geco for it, back when I was going to use the SKS for hunting. No issues at 100 yards, I have a 1.5-6 illuminated reticle bushnell on it and it works great.
