My thinking for a first hunting rifle

I'm going to go in a bit of different path here. If you are going to be dogging, a bolt may not be ideal. That, with limited sightline bush hunting for moose, really screams lever or pump. I've done lots of dogging, and I have used bolts, but a lever with no scope is tailor made fot this situation.
It allows quick shouldering, rapid follow ups shots and increased shot capacity. They are typically shorter and easier to maneuver through brush. Adding a QD low power scope for moose hunts is no problem with a rail.
 
Great point. Because of 50 years of experience with it, I'm an advocate of the 6.5 x 55. Like the Creed it handles the lightest varmint bullets up to about 140 gr with great accuracy; unlike the Creed, because of the heavier case capacity it handles heavier 160 gr bullets. If you are considering hand loading/reloading, the selection of bullets available in 6.5 lets you tailor and tune your loads the way you want. I presently load 85 gr Sierra hollow point for ground hogs and 158 gr for my two military surplus range toys. My Scoped Zastava M70 and my 1900 Obendorf with original tangent sight shoot both these loads within 1 inch point of aim at 100 yards. Try that with a Creed. LOL.

Sounds like a fun challenge!

I'll try shooting a group with 95gr V-max, 120gr OTM and 129gr Interlock and see how it does lol. Only ammo I have on hand that aren't monos. We'll see how it groups.
 
Hello, I need to rack up a couple posts to get access to EE, so here we go:

I just got my PAL and restricted. Not totally new to guns after a decade in the military, just never used them outside of work. I'm hoping to join my friends hunting deer and moose mainly around Parry Sound and Muskoka, but we may make trips further north. The deer hunts are mostly driven hunts, and I've been told I'll be dogging lots for years as the new guy. I don't know much about the moose hunts. I've been told you rarely see anything further than 50 yards away in those woods.

I've got a great wishlist of guns for each different scenario, but not the money for it all in one shot. So I'd like a one gun solution that will get me going and allow me to put that money towards something nice to use, get a good optic etc. This is my thinking and what I've come to, but happy to have my Google-conceived idea shot to pieces:

-able to take deer, moose, bear
-recoil that won't make me want to shoot it less
-reasonably light and short due to all the bushwhacking I'll be doing
-ammo availability and cost that encourage practice
-something I can enjoy using to practice marksmanship at the range
-all-weather, dependable, would love it to become my end of the world rifle once I have safe full of guns for every occasion

I'm thinking a .308 bolt gun with an 18-20" barrel. Top contenders are the Tikka T3x CTR or Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I've also thought about getting a used T3x, getting the barrel chopped to 18", and chipping away at customizing it over time with all the aftermarket bits available. For optic I'm thinking a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO.

The other idea was to get a Browning BLR in .243 for deer and coyotes, and a nice bolt action in 7mm PRC for moose and anything where I get to be in a stand, something like the Browning x-bolt pro SPR, but that's way more money.

Well you did ask to shoot your ideas to pieces...so here goes, and I apologize in advance. First off, I find some of your choices and matches somewhat disparate of your stated missions and wants/needs. For something handy that you'll be carrying in your hands most of the time and for mostly close range shots, I'd pick something that shoots a bigger bullet slower than a couple of your picks. There's a few reasons for this. A bigger, slower bullet means less bloodshot meat, the bullet is more likely to hold together with the impact velocity being closer to ideal designed impact, and the bullet is more likely to exit especially at non ideal angles and give you a way easier tracking job through thick bush. A bigger bore cartridge is more powder efficient and requires a shorter barrel to achieve near maximum velocity. The 7 PRC you mention is best suited with a long barrel of around 24-26" and cutting it down will show bigger losses than something like a .308, 8x57, or even 30-06. And I haven't looked into it, but is probably chambered in mostly heavier rifles.

To pick on the 7 PRC a little bit more, some might something that kicks slightly less. While I don't find stuff in that class to be especially fearsome, due to its larger payload of powder, it will kick a bit more than a 30-06, with the same bullet weights and very close to the same velocity. And the more bench or prone shooting you do, the faster it beats you up. Would not be my choice for an end of the world gun, as sometimes these new boutique chamberings catch on, and sometimes they don't and kinda fade away. In the meantime, ammo can be hard to find, and very expensive. My BIL bought one of the new, hot fad cartridge guns, and ammo is hard to find, hideously expensive, and when I bought a die set to reload for him, I found brass to be hard to find as well. SOME brass isn't too tough to make, while others are real oddball. On the subject of oddball, I've found 175 grain 7mm bullets for reloading hard to find, and 180 and above has got to be pretty rare. With a fast, large case magnum, you will want slightly heavier bullets to take advantage of the case capacity and also to hold together on big game.

I don't have a lot to say about the scopes, other than I feel they'd be mismatched on a rifle chambered for a high velocity cartridge. My personal pick for a short to medium range rifle is about a 2-7x32. The bigger objective will help in low light, 2x is pretty fast for close range acquisition, while 7x is very useable for longish range. And about 2-10x40 for longer range, but still good close up field of view.

To be honest, if I didn't reload, I'd likely have a JM Marlin (semi pistol grip for scope use) or Henry in 30-30 as one of my top picks. Shooting 170 grain bullets, there isn't much that does anything a whole lot better. Handy as can be with a 20" barrel and back up iron sights.

For "end of the world" I don't think I'd pick a newer Tikka. I think they all have a multi piece bolt (handle) and are constructed with quite a bit of plastic.
Just my preference; lots of others like them fine. I like all steel and wood, preferably controlled round feed. Stainless is nice, but can still rust, and blued guns taken care of aren't going to melt in the rain either. Shortening a barrel yourself isn't too tough either.

.308 is available just about everywhere and reasonable cost, though I prefer the 30-06 for slightly heavier bullets.

BLR are nice, but magazines are tough to come by and expensive. And many people including gunsmiths don't like taking them apart.
 
Great point. Because of 50 years of experience with it, I'm an advocate of the 6.5 x 55. Like the Creed it handles the lightest varmint bullets up to about 140 gr with great accuracy; unlike the Creed, because of the heavier case capacity it handles heavier 160 gr bullets. If you are considering hand loading/reloading, the selection of bullets available in 6.5 lets you tailor and tune your loads the way you want. I presently load 85 gr Sierra hollow point for ground hogs and 158 gr for my two military surplus range toys. My Scoped Zastava M70 and my 1900 Obendorf with original tangent sight shoot both these loads within 1 inch point of aim at 100 yards. Try that with a Creed. LOL.

I also have a great many years with the 6.5X55 nd really like it, but consider the following.

The OP is new to this , and not hand loading yet.
Wit the factory cartridge options for the Creedmoor ( far more than with the 6.5Swede) these days one does not need to shoot heavy bullets, and there are many more options available in newer firearms for the 6.5 Creedmoor than the 6.5X55.
Cat
 
In a hunting scenario I like to stick to a single action and I've used bolt actions for most of it.Being left handed,alot were right handed as left were unobtainable when I was in my teens to the twenties...I'd get out to the range and try a few different options,..a 308 will do everything you need it to...I have a Tikka T3x in 30.06 LH coming and i see it being the last one I'll need..
Tons of great rifles listed on the EE..good luck,!
 
3006 bolt gun, basic 3-9 scope.

The 06 is noticeably more powerful than 08. Advocates of the 08 will say lower recoil and lighter rifles. The lighter rifle makes for a stronger perceived recoil impulse. If the difference in weight between rifles is a factor, perhaps hunting isn't for you.
 
I also have a great many years with the 6.5X55 nd really like it, but consider the following.

The OP is new to this , and not hand loading yet.
Wit the factory cartridge options for the Creedmoor ( far more than with the 6.5Swede) these days one does not need to shoot heavy bullets, and there are many more options available in newer firearms for the 6.5 Creedmoor than the 6.5X55.
Cat

Yup. Many ammo options. Many rifle options. In just about every store.

6.5x55 is def a handloading proposition

3006 bolt gun, basic 3-9 scope.

The 06 is noticeably more powerful than 08. Advocates of the 08 will say lower recoil and lighter rifles. The lighter rifle makes for a stronger perceived recoil impulse. If the difference in weight between rifles is a factor, perhaps hunting isn't for you.


Or use whats comfortable/what you like and forget what anyone else thinks.

Course if you don't mind more weight a lighter rifle lets you pack more scope without your rig being a pig for nothing. Especially if your 308 is the same weight as your 30-06, which is also possible.

In a hunting scenario I like to stick to a single action and I've used bolt actions for most of it.Being left handed,alot were right handed as left were unobtainable when I was in my teens to the twenties...I'd get out to the range and try a few different options,..a 308 will do everything you need it to...I have a Tikka T3x in 30.06 LH coming and i see it being the last one I'll need..
Tons of great rifles listed on the EE..good luck,!

Hope you like your Tikka in 30-06!

Always said the same with 308 as well. Unless you're really cranking up the handloads its pretty much neck and neck with the 30-06 with 150 gr (using monos, never need more) and never really saw a diff with a 30-06 on a big animal with a heavier bullet vs 308 with a heavier bullet. One does what the other does.

Would be shooting 130gr TTSX out of either of them, but see Blakeyboy's hunting with the ELD-M if you want a heavier bullet, besides all the other good options out there.

When using 165gr or 180gr Accubond/Ballistic tip, I'd shoot a moose twice anyway lol. There was just about always opportunity.
 
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Only reason to ever pick 308 over 30-06 is if you want a Savage 99.

Given all your criteria, I'd say 760 in 30-06 or 270
 
We've been through this before, if a guy is using factory ammo in a short 308 he might as well get an SKS and use S&B ammo.
 
We've been through this before, if a guy is using factory ammo in a short 308 he might as well get an SKS and use S&B ammo.

Yeah, it was wrong then too lol. It'll be even more wrong at 20".

Or are we gonna keep saying .308 cal 168 grain bullets going as fast if not faster than that one cherry picked .310-.311 125gr bullet is the same?

We can pretend.
 
Yeah, it was wrong then too lol. It'll be even more wrong at 20".

Tell me again how 2450 is more than 2500.

You can't have it all; that no animal can tell the difference between 308 and 30-06 yet magically the short 308 is in a different class than the 7.62x39

Fact is the 30-06 crosses a velocity threshold that the 308 (especially the short ones) do not.

I have a prediction to make.
 
Tell me again how 2450 is more than 2500.

Tell me again how 2450 fps came into this convo without ridiculous cherry picking and/or n=1 sampling lol

165-168 gr, factory ammo, 18.7" to 20", if you are loggin 2450 you have an abysmally slow barrel, sorry.

150 gr, we're looking at 2700+ fps with a 150gr, not a 125gr of slightly fatter diameter.

That's better lol

Tell me again how 2450 is more than 2500.

You can't have it all; that no animal can tell the difference between 308 and 30-06 yet magically the short 308 is in a different class than the 7.62x39

Fact is the 30-06 crosses a velocity threshold that the 308 (especially the short ones) do not.

I have a prediction to make.

[quote="MiG25]You can't have it all; that no animal can tell the difference between 308 and 30-06 yet magically the short 308 is in a different class than the 7.62x39[/quote]

Well yes, see, cause 7.62x39 is different from 308 and 30-06! Interesting.

We're talking about 150gr or better yet 165gr or even better still, 180gr with 308 and 30-06. We are not talking about those with 7.62x39. Are we?

Mig25 said:
I have a prediction to make.

Predict away
 
Well it is, see below.

2450 = two thousand four hundred and fifty.

2500 = twentyfivehundred.

Way less digits with 2500.

He has a point! lol


Check these out tho. And they are both factory ammo. BTW, since we are cherry picking one standout 7.62x39 load, wanna bet we can't find a better 308 Win load than this? Think we can? I think we can. But either way.

aa4e84d4


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https://rifleshooter.com/2015/01/30...d-velocity-federal-168-grain-gold-medal-bthp/


Average speed for 18" and 20" with a 168gr bullet? 2524 fps and 2566 fps. If you really want to insist a 125gr .311" bullet is just as good, go right ahead. We're talking much better weight and BC, and 2000+ ft/lbs at 100 yards vs 1390-ish ft/lbs at 100 yards.

Interesting definition of "might as well" and "just as good"

Kinda what I would think of as "sucks" personally lol
 
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There’s a couple of Browning abolts .308 for sale at local CT at $699.
Should do the job.
 
Show me and the OP the 308 ammo that meets this criteria "ammo availability and cost that encourage practice" that is in the same class as the 30-06 when shot in a truncated 308.
 
Show me and the OP the 308 ammo that meets this criteria "ammo availability and cost that encourage practice" that is in the same class as the 30-06 when shot in a truncated 308.


Well thats a rather large shift of goalposts now isn't it lol.

If one is truncated the other is also truncated, no? Would imagine ammo affordability is pretty much the same, and the truncated 308 is still WAY closer to truncated 30-06 than the .762x39 is.

But well done on abandoning this "7.62x39 is just as good as 308" nonsense.
 
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