Pushing plated bullets too fast?

[Scotty454]

So I have a 460 magnum revolver, I've been running 250grain plated CamPro bullets at about 1750ish FPS. Which I was fine with, until I bought a Garmin Xero and found out that they're not as close to 2,000 as was expecting. For no good reason other than that's a fun milestone to hit. The gun is just for fun anyways.

The CamPros do fine at 1750, no plating separation or anything, but I'm just curious what actually happens when you exceed a plated bullet's max velocity. Will it just shed the jacket as it leaves the barrel and accuracy goes to sh!t, or is there potential for unsafe things to happen? The 460 XVR barrels are progressive/gain twist, is that helping the bullets not throw themselves apart? I can't really see anything bad happening from a safety perspective, unless it leaves a bunch of jacket or bullet behind in the barrel somehow?

Not interested in running more expensive bullets. I'm pretty much just looking for the kaboom, accuracy is less important lol.

 

[serg777]

Not sure about Campro, but the common rule is that plated bullets should not exceed 1500fps max. Yet, that's for the thick plating, where for regular plating it is much less. That's why in my XVR I do use Campro 250gr only for pet loads with shorter 45LC casings and regular pistol powder like TiteGroup, which gives about 1100fps. For chits and giggles the most kaboom effect achieved with Hornady 200gr FTX and H110 powder. Shooting milk canisters with 300gr XTP is fun too. But for all my loads the velocity is indeed much lower than expected. I assume that's because the load data pertain to longer barrels.

As for your question, I did try a cheaper non-magnum Hornady 300gr bullets, which advertised as 1500fps max and did not observe any issues going over the limit. Those a jacketed bullets, though. But I decided not to experiment any further with such high pressures in my hand. I need only to load one cylinder to satisfy my itch. So a box of Hornady pills will go a long way. Cheaper than this:
https://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=wa1poYGZYlU

 

[mactroneng]

Berry's makes a plated bullet for the 500 magnum that they advertise is good to 2,000 FPS, not sure if they make a 45 cal bullet to the same standard or not.

 

[Scotty454]

Not sure about Campro, but the common rule is that plated bullets should not exceed 1500fps max. Yet, that's for the thick plating, where for regular plating it is much less. That's why in my XVR I do use Campro 250gr only for pet loads with shorter 45LC casings and regular pistol powder like TiteGroup, which gives about 1100fps. For chits and giggles the most kaboom effect achieved with Hornady 200gr FTX and H110 powder. Shooting milk canisters with 300gr XTP is fun too. But for all my loads the velocity is indeed much lower than expected. I assume that's because the load data pertain to longer barrels.

As for your question, I did try a cheaper non-magnum Hornady 300gr bullets, which advertised as 1500fps max and did not observe any issues going over the limit. Those a jacketed bullets, though. But I decided not to experiment any further with such high pressures in my hand. I need only to load one cylinder to satisfy my itch. So a box of Hornady pills will go a long way. Cheaper than this:
https://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=wa1poYGZYlU

K, but do you know WHY that's the 'common rule'? I'm not looking for common practice that existed before the gun and bullet I'm using existed, I'm looking for an actual reason I shouldn't push them faster, other than accuracy. The gun is not going to blow up, that doesn't make sense. There's a dozen ways I could blow the gun up, I don't think a plated vs jacketed bullet is one of them, unless someone can prove to me that it is.

This gun is a glorified loud, obnoxious plinker, that I typically take to the range on Steel Challenge nights and let my buddies shoot a cylinder through. I'm just not gonna shoot dollar each bullets out of it.

 

[6MT]

Not sure about Campro, but the common rule is that plated bullets should not exceed 1500fps max. Yet, that's for the thick plating, where for regular plating it is much less. That's why in my XVR I do use Campro 250gr only for pet loads with shorter 45LC casings and regular pistol powder like TiteGroup, which gives about 1100fps. For chits and giggles the most kaboom effect achieved with Hornady 200gr FTX and H110 powder. Shooting milk canisters with 300gr XTP is fun too. But for all my loads the velocity is indeed much lower than expected. I assume that's because the load data pertain to longer barrels.

As for your question, I did try a cheaper non-magnum Hornady 300gr bullets, which advertised as 1500fps max and did not observe any issues going over the limit. Those a jacketed bullets, though. But I decided not to experiment any further with such high pressures in my hand. I need only to load one cylinder to satisfy my itch. So a box of Hornady pills will go a long way. Cheaper than this:
https://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=wa1poYGZYlU

Can you please explain where this comes from? I have never heard of that.

 

[Snider shooter]

I would be experimenting to see at what speed leading shows up. I am currently trying to find out with my 454 Casull. Most I want to shoot out of it at on time is 80 rnds. Currently at one gr below maximum with H110 and 300 gr cast. Minor leading after 80 rnds. Was thinking out not cleaning it but to see how much build up would happen after a couple hundred rnds but can’t seem to be able to leave it dirty between range trips.

 

[serg777]

Can you please explain where this comes from? I have never heard of that.

www. berrysmfg.com/faq

 

[6MT]

Thanks!

 

[serg777]

K, but do you know WHY that's the 'common rule'? I'm not looking for common practice that existed before the gun and bullet I'm using existed, I'm looking for an actual reason I shouldn't push them faster, other than accuracy. The gun is not going to blow up, that doesn't make sense. There's a dozen ways I could blow the gun up, I don't think a plated vs jacketed bullet is one of them, unless someone can prove to me that it is.

This gun is a glorified loud, obnoxious plinker, that I typically take to the range on Steel Challenge nights and let my buddies shoot a cylinder through. I'm just not gonna shoot dollar each bullets out of it.

Besides accuracy issues, bullet core separation is the other thing. This is right on Berry's manufacturer web site.

Is it ok to continue shooting when some lead particles might be remaining in the barrel? I don't know. I'd rather would not run into this situation in a first place.

Besides, I never let my buddies and range guests to try my guns with my reloads. Only factory ammo. Just in case.

 

[Cocked&Locked]

...I never let my buddies and range guests try my guns with my reloads. Only factory ammo. Just in case.

You sure don't have any faith in your own reloading skills.

My people shoot my reloads without a concern.

 

[Scotty454]

Besides accuracy issues, bullet core separation is the other thing. This is right on Berry's manufacturer web site.

Is it ok to continue shooting when some lead particles might be remaining in the barrel? I don't know. I'd rather would not run into this situation in a first place.

Besides, I never let my buddies and range guests to try my guns with my reloads. Only factory ammo. Just in case.

So core separation; other than bad accuracy/tumbling/bullet fragment shotgun patterns, what other negatives come along with that? I'm really only looking for safety concerns. If I get irregular POIs, I'll check the bore to make sure she's not obstructed, so I'm not really worried about that. I'm gonna load some spicy rounds to try to get to 2k, unless someone here can convince me not to. Lol so far, not even close.

And is it safe to shoot with lead particles in your barrel? Lol yes or no, depending on how big said particles are. Like, 250 grain particles? No.

 

[serg777]

You sure don't have any faith in your own reloading skills.

My people shoot my reloads without a concern.

Accidents might happen for many reasons other than bad ammo. Bad gun, bad shooter. As for the ammo, my reloads have no more misfires, hangfires etc than factory ammo. However, in the rare event of a firearm catastrophic failures or accidents, it would be preferable for it to happen with factory ammo due to liability.

Especially, OP seems experimenting with reloads and in the same time lets his buddies to try it.

 

[B]

If you are able to load around pressure as opposed to velocity it will get you a lot further along. All of Campro's bullets save for their HBWC and actual jacketed offerings have a 0.008" thick plating. If it were simply a matter of velocity I wouldn't be able to push 110grn .308 bullets over 2100fps while having issues with plating separation pushing 250grn .451" past 1300fps with fast powders, also in a .454C. Those are two quick examples among many I have, in my testing it seems as you approach 45,000PSI most cartridges are going to start having issues. That is based off what I have seen through my chronograph, targets and loading programs coupled with a lot of speculation. If you are able to minimize deformation while crimping that will also help as it seems to be where the separations start showing first even with otherwise modest crimps.

 

[serg777]

So core separation; other than bad accuracy/tumbling/bullet fragment shotgun patterns, what other negatives come along with that? I'm really only looking for safety concerns. If I get irregular POIs, I'll check the bore to make sure she's not obstructed, so I'm not really worried about that. I'm gonna load some spicy rounds to try to get to 2k, unless someone here can convince me not to. Lol so far, not even close.

And is it safe to shoot with lead particles in your barrel? Lol yes or no, depending on how big said particles are. Like, 250 grain particles? No.

I guess you won't get precise answer on your question. Would be interesting to read your report once you decide to try it on your own.

But even it would bring any success, the cost savings from using Campro, which seems to be the primary goal here, are relatively minor. During BF craze I have scored a few boxes of Hornary bullets, which works out 40c per piece, where Campro is 18c. Saving $1 on full cylinder of 5 shots with questionable bullets? Assuming my dosage is no more than 10 shots per occasional range trip (if I ever pack this gun at all) - the potential savings don't seem significant enough to warrant the hassle. And I never seen anyone else shooting more than a 20rd box out of this gimmicky gun anyways.

 

[Paul_T]

Why don't you contact Campro directly? They state their plated projectiles are good for FMJ and Magnum loads in the FAQ section of their website.

info@cam-pro.ca

 

[Deathrawt]

Cam Pro also has load data on their website so you can compare data with your reloading manuals to what they have

 

[Andy]

I wonder if it's MV or pressure limits that apply.

 

[Scotty454]

I guess you won't get precise answer on your question. Would be interesting to read your report once you decide to try it on your own.

But even it would bring any success, the cost savings from using Campro, which seems to be the primary goal here, are relatively minor. During BF craze I have scored a few boxes of Hornary bullets, which works out 40c per piece, where Campro is 18c. Saving $1 on full cylinder of 5 shots with questionable bullets? Assuming my dosage is no more than 10 shots per occasional range trip (if I ever pack this gun at all) - the potential savings don't seem significant enough to warrant the hassle. And I never seen anyone else shooting more than a 20rd box out of this gimmicky gun anyways.

Hornady XTPs are 60 cents each at least, CamPros are 18 cents. I don't care about the random good blowout price someone got them for, I care about what I can get them for right now. The bullet is either the cheapest component, or by far the most expensive component depending on brand. 15ish cents for a primer, 35ish cents for powder, brass price is amortized over multiple firings.

Not including brass, running Hornady bullets would almost double my reloading cost. I don't shoot a couple rounds at a time, I typically shoot 50 or more rounds per trip, so saving $.040+ per round is definitely significant enough to warrant the hassle, to me. Especially if there's actually no good reason not to.

Also, I'm not interested in hearing that I should just spend more money on Hornady bullets. That's not what I asked. But typical CGN I guess; disregard original post, offer unsolicited opinion instead.

 

[CzyHorse]

Since the OP's revolver handles higher operating pressures I'd check with Campro. IMO Campros issue will be the pressure.

I regularly shoot 158gr Campros at ~1775fps in my 18.5" Marlin 1894 357Mag/38Spl using Campro Data & H110. I expect this to be faster out of my new 24" Rossi R92.
I regularly shoot 240gr Campros at ~1830fps in my 20" Marlin 1894 44Mag using Campro Data & H110. I haven't tried Campros with Lil'Gun yet. Lil'Gun pushes a 240gr XTP to 1900fps in the Marlin 1894 44mag.
I regularly shoot 240gr Campros at ~1975fps in my 22" Marlin 1895 444Marlin using H4895. A lot slower than the ~2400fps Hornady XTP's coyote bombs. But the Campros are great for getting in some regular trigger time gong ringing.

240gr Campro TCFCP - 240gr Hornady XTP

I contacted Campro about using their 240gr TCFCP in my 444Marlin.
My case for using the 240gr TCFCP bullets in the 444marlin was, I'd have to go out of my way to exceed 44Mag SAMMI pressures using H4895 in a 444Marlin case.
Campro did not have an issue using their bullet with H4895 in the 444Marlin.

 

[antiqueguy]

Since the OP's revolver handles higher operating pressures I'd check with Campro. IMO Campros issue will be the pressure.

I regularly shoot 158gr Campros at ~1775fps in my 18.5" Marlin 1894 357Mag/38Spl using Campro Data & H110. I expect this to be faster out of my new 24" Rossi R92.
I regularly shoot 240gr Campros at ~1830fps in my 20" Marlin 1894 44Mag using Campro Data & H110. I haven't tried Campros with Lil'Gun yet. Lil'Gun pushes a 240gr XTP to 1900fps in the Marlin 1894 44mag.
I regularly shoot 240gr Campros at ~1975fps in my 22" Marlin 1895 444Marlin using H4895. A lot slower than the ~2400fps Hornady XTP's coyote bombs. But the Campros are great for getting in some regular trigger time gong ringing.

240gr Campro TCFCP - 240gr Hornady XTP

I contacted Campro about using their 240gr TCFCP in my 444Marlin.
My case for using the 240gr TCFCP bullets in the 444marlin was, I'd have to go out of my way to exceed 44Mag SAMMI pressures using H4895 in a 444Marlin case.
Campro did not have an issue using their bullet with H4895 in the 444Marlin.

That gives me some answers about their .458 bullets that I’d like to use in the .458 win mag.